Estes Pro Series Patriot

Built..around $50.00, that's what I'd pay any way.

The value of most kits drop dramatically once built, even for those out of production. This kit retailed for $87.99 so if you can get $50.00 for a built one you should probably take it and consider yourself lucky. I think it would be hard to get even the original amount for this kit even if it wasn't built and it was in good condition. I seem to remember a NIB being sold recently on Ebay for about $65.00.

The biggest problem you have is there are much better 4" Patriot kits out there for the same or less money and only a collector with a "I gotta have it" attitude will give you anything approaching the list price.

Personally I would go outside and stuff a G33J, H220T or I200W motor into it and have some fun.

Andrew

This kit is built for 4 * 24mm motors, and was designed for the old E15. It will fly on 4 D12s, and probably 4 E9s.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Also very nice flights on four E28-7's :-)

John

It's a lot harder to ignite 4 composite motors at once than 4 BP motors.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Makes me wonder about how many were ever produced. I've been reading rmr since late 1996 and you are the first one to mention having built one. Never saw one in a store either, just in the catalog.

Randy

I built and painted one. It is in my garage. Never flown it. It's used as a display model at hobby shows and other demos that our club participates in.

Blue Thunder propellant is easy to light, as you well know. A good relay launch system and fresh home made Igniter Man igniters will get the motors going easily. I always match the igniters resistance wise, and consistently have two to three ohm measurements.

I launched the four E28-7 combo during our Patriot's Day launch September

11, 2004. All motors lit when the button was pushed. It left with authority :-)

John

Yup. But it's easier with 4 BP motors. All you need for that are GOOD Solar ignitors. Every time I open a pack, I pick out any really nice ones for my "clusters only" box. In fact when Ed LaCroix was dumping the last of his Estes made 13mm mini motors, I bought a bunch just for the really nice Solar ignitors that were in the packages. Have you checked the price of a SOlar ignitor lately? $4.50 for a pack of 6 is 75 cents each. ANd half of them come pre-broken :-(

Then there's the cost of FOUR RMS 24/40 casings !

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I've noticed the drop in quality of Solars. I also pick through and reserve the best for clusters. I was surprised by the last bulk pack of motors. Almost all igniters had very little pyrogen.

As far as the four reload cases are concerned, I fly several 24 mm reloads at each launch and it made it easier to have more than one case...besides "Cool" flights always come at a cost :-)

John

snip

We pick up extra igniters from staging, since when they're stacked you only use half as many. Just from flying Verna's 3 stage Saturn V Bad Girl, we picked up 6 extras per flight. After 4 flights that's 24 left over igniters right there and as was pointed out, at today's prices for a pack of 6, that's a huge savings.

Randy

Drop stage more often!

They use so little pyrogen on them now that many of them get broken before you ever open the package. It's really disgusting, given what they charge for them.

The absolute best Solar ignitors I have are from the batch that they handed out at NARAM one year with NO pyrogen at all. At least 50% of them were trash when I got them home. But the survivors all got dipped in Firestar and are the best ignitors around for BP clusters!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

They do well with the Ignitorman pyrogen too. 100% success with 3*bp E9's on 5 flights. Smokey ones at that.

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

I've had ONE E9 fail to ignite in a cluster. After examining the motor, it had the same all clay nozzle that was popular with the Apogee Micro motors. Good thing it was a 4 motor cluster of E9-8s and not a second stage :-(

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Great idea. I'll give it a try. The Quick Burst igniters work well in clusters, too.

John

I've had 3 ignition failures (3 individual motors that failed to ignite) out of around 100 clustered motors lit with quickmatch (over 20 or so flights). Two of those were dusty D11's, the other was a B6 - didn't get the QM into the nozzle far enough. If you can get it, its great stuff, far less faff than multiple igniters. I have 5 metres in my stash at the moment :)

I've also noticed that the head of an e-match will fit into a D12 nozzle, has anyone tried using these for clusters. A bit pricey perhaps, unless you get cheap foreign 'clone' e-matches.

At our last launch Chris Short had seven E9-6's light all at once in his LOC Stovi. I don't think he was using solar igniters, however.

John