It's official. Bruce Kelly sells U.S. Rockets motors at Balls 2005

Shit, I wonder if he had any H160's??(;-)

Fred

Jerry Irv>

I'll give you three guesses. Here's a hint - Big Fine also there is more than one answer but any correct answer is FINE.

I got some from Ken Allen. Ray - where did you get yours? Just because someone has been known to rip people off, doesn't mean they steal everything.

Maybe someone will post to formula here. ;-)

I can do that...(:-)

Come on - don't hold back on us. It's not like it belongs to anyone. Hell there's not even anyone using it.

Where is it written that they have any obligation to do that?

Allegedly. So far I've seen no proof that these motors are the same motors you submitted for cert.

I didn't. I suggested the possibility that he acquired them through a third party. Like you, I have no direct knowledge of how he got them. You ought to remember that from when we were in court.

I claim it's "ok" for anyone to sell any motors, certified or not, legal or not. They just can't fly uncertified motors at sanctioned launches. Of course, those running the launch may choose not to allow someone to sell uncertified motors at their launch, but that's their choice.

As long as he's not claiming they're certified, as you did, I don't see a problem with it. Especially since he's not a manufacturer or vendor. He's just one guy selling some old motors out of his personal collection. That's entirely different from a manufacturer trying to pass off uncertified motors as certified.

Not being a TRA member, I thought that Balls was for "experimental" motors, either home made, or non-certified; of which Jerry's are apparently are.

Non the question is where did Bruce get them (does he have a bill of sale) ???

John

Actually, TRA EX really means homebrew or a mix with certified. It clearly restricts non certified motors where the non-certified motors were not made by someone on the flight team. So, for example. Frank could have one of his motors in a bird flown at an EX launch if he was a TRA L2 or above and was part of the project team.

Now, while I think BK may have done kind of a weird thing by selling USR motors at a TRA endorsed launch, it's in many ways no different than if BK set up a grill and sold burgers and dogs...

The problem isn't that the motors were sold at the launch, but it is a problem if the motors were actually flown at the launch. And that's not BK's problem, unless he was the RSO for the flights.

(Note: I'm keeping all ATFE details out of this discussion)

Why don't you give Bruce a call and ask him??(;-)

Fred

Yea, but you would think, all the bitching and moaning done by Bruce concerning JI, while he was in the chair at Tripoli, would of caused Bruce to refrain from selling JI motors at a TRA function. Maybe integrity is not an issue for Bruce. Remember, perception is reality for those who believe.

Hi John.

TRA EX is for home made or team made motors, if a professional motor house makes them, they must be part of a team and making motors that are not offered for commercial sale.

Commercial motors that are certified or not certified have been prohibited for awhile. back in the old, old days they were allowed.

You're confusing SELLING the motors with FLYING the motors. TRA has no rules about selling or not selling uncertified motors.

...except when you factor in how the BK-run BoD responded to Frank Kosdon selling motors at TRA launches....

Hi David.

I'm not confused, sorry if my post provided confusion ;-)

I was explaining to John the EX flying rules, not selling rules. See John's post.

That's incorrect. Uncertified motors can't be flown at TRA EX launches. All motors flown at these launches must be made by a certified TRA member and that member must be present at the launch, either flying the motor himself or as part of a team.

You'd have to ask him.

When it comes to integrity with BK, all I need is three simple letters. HPR.

Ya, I know... I was a Prefect at the time of the springfest when Frank was told by BK about the TRA rules and banning his stuff. I was within 10' of frank, as BK wanted all the prefects there.

But we all know that BK isn't the brightest bulb on the string - look at what he did with HPR - it's now defunct! But in reality, BK selling USR motors in this case is no different than if Troj sold USR motors to Azwoody at a launch in ne. The real issue is if they were flown at a TRA launch.

If Kosdon was restricted at TRA launches, it's probably because he is an unlicensed manufacturer. It seems to me that TRA has a right to place restrictions on unlicensed manufacturers at their launches, even if they do not restrict individuals selling old stock from personal collections.

I hope that TRA never attempts to place restrictions on individuals selling old motors just to placate two unlicensed manufacturers who refuse to conform with the cert requirements.

=CB=9B