JC, TRA and the future of rocketry

This is NOT news.

It is however an alleged crime in some 28+ states.

Point!

LOL!!!

- iz

David W. wrote:

for whose case? the prosecution or the defense?

- iz

Jerry Irv> In article ,

Defense!

How sick and sad is that?

And I have records of putting NAR on notice of this and demanding action.

I have posted to rmr many times that all Iwant is to TRA/NAR certify some DOT legal, ATF exempt, authority approved motors and NOT persue either civil or criminal actions despite BOTH being persuied against me by TRA and its principals (co-conspirators).

Forgiveness is a feature at least for my mental comfort.

However the torts and alleged crimes continued unabated and now the shit is hitting the fan. HARD.

Jerry

"Very astute observation. Even after being led by the nose to facts supporting JI's claim, he still says that none exist. He's a troll...pure and simple." - Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II

"Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." -- Vernon Schryver

you mean expelled members other than these newly expelled ones, of course :o)

- iz

Jerry Irv> >>expel all of them from TRA for cause

ok, lets do this one final time ... but this is the last time I'm going to say this

SCENARIO A

if you fantasize that I am a ARSA spokesperson, then you will take my prior statements as consistent with and reflective of ARSA's position:

1. JW is committed to legalized rocketry (or more accurately, decriminalized rocketry in the wake of the DOJ/BATFE)
2. JC's position appears from his statements to be that only the legal practice of rocketry is acceptable, specifically so that the moral requirement (that risks to siteowners, participants, spectators, and bystander are mitigated) is met
3. these positions are not mutually exclusive (i.e.; are consistent)

however, I deny that I am a "spokesperson". My experience is that "spokepersons" do more than simply read (in my case, repost) position statements and information. They interpret questions, assess the implications of various responses, and craft specific responses which may be presumed to be sanctioned; i.e. consistent with actual positions described in original position "statements".

ergo ...

SCENARIO B

I assert that I am merely a "facilitator of communication" (and I added that that function has agreement where it is necessary, which implies that my reposting material verbatim or providing links to original material has not evoked a negative response from JW)

if my assertion that I am not an ARSA spokesperson is valid, then my other previous statement applies:

1. that "JW makes his own position statements and I fail to see any merit in proposing that he make a particular one for you to manipulate"

so choose your reality

feel free to cut this message, copy it to your clipboard, and paste it to yourself whenever you, John DeMar or Ray insist on repeating the same question.

as a reminder, should any of you gentlemen present the question again, I will simply remind you to "choose your reality", and you can take that as an invitation to paste this in response, again, ad infinitum

- iz

"you can lead a horse to water, but a man's gotta learn to recognize his limitations"

GCGassaway wrote:

Now that is funny.

Acted? In what way?

And it is not the finest field in Georgia, BTW.

An architect who just also happens to have an axe to grind.

Run out of speeders on I-285 to count?

You KNOW they won't get expelled. The only way they will EVER go is to resign. They maintain tight information control so expecting them to be "voted out" is unrealistic.

It would be truly unfortunate if the only way to get a resignation was following the filing of criminal charges.

kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote in news:5qDRubwZ$ snipped-for-privacy@eisner.encompasserve.org:

They get softer with repeated use. Unfortunately, so does your head :-)

That is a horse of different color. The JC/turf war horse has been discussed excessivly, thus beating that horse to death.

Alan

TRA's rules allow EX motors at EX launches, so what's the problem?

You're quoting from the wrong set of rules. That is in the rules for a "high power" launch, NOT an EX launch. EX launch rules do allow uncertified motors.

That can only be due to the fact that a majority of the membership does not share your assessment of the leadership. Beating the issue to death isn't going to change that.

John Cato's puppet posted for him:

How is "not on solid ground and should be suspended" any different from "illegal and should be shut down"? They are identical!

Unsubtantiated accusations.

In short, he IS saying it was illegal. And I haven't seen anything indicating he feels differently now.

TRA has consistently tried to work with authorities to keep rocketry activities within the law.

In fact it could be argued (and has been by Jerry) that TRA's attempts to work with the authorities is what "stirred up the hornet's nest" of additional regulation. However, there are several factors that have initiated increased regulation.

Number one is the fact that the hobby has grown. Whereas before it was "under the radar", with increased numbers came increased scrutiny and the typical bureaucratic knee-jerk response of "we'd better start regulating this". In the InfoCentral files on ROL there is a letter from ATF which corroborates this.

Secondly, infighting among certain manufacturers and individuals has caused a great deal of long-term regulatory problems. I'm thinking of one incident in particular, the infamous bogus video rigged up by Estes and Vulcan in an attempt to stifle competition from AT's reloadable motors. This video and accompanying false claims against AT were sent to a wide range of regulatory agencies, most of whom had previously been uninvolved with high power rocketry.

And the certifying organizations can set their own rules as to what constitutes "certification", right?

Iz dodged:

More like an facilitator of obfuscation.

In short, you are adamantly refusing to answer a question that cuts to the heart of this entire conversation.