NAR/TRA Joint Active Recovery Definition

Attack the delay problem, not the vehicle. Requiring use of a short motor delay should cure the problem, at least if using A/T single use & reloads. I doubt a flight shorter than 6 seconds, (normal A/T reloadable short delay), is probable unless the saucer is a heavy weight. Also if I remember, some of the single use A/T motor short delays are available @

4 seconds.

Fred

Good point but there does need to be some sort of feedback to decertify incompetent fliers.

I don't think anyone is looking to vilify saucers. They just want to be sure that people can handle recovery.

How does your buddy system work? Is it done for all flights or just some?

Phil

Nothing obviously wrong with using a short delay grain for a saucer but would the said saucer flyer know enough to use a short grain?

Like it was mentioned before, it really all depends on the flyer but it also could mean that the flyer doesn't have enough experience flying rockets(3fnc example) in general.

Bottom line though, the RSO has the last word whether anything gets airborne.

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Phil Stein wrote: ...

...

Just for high power flights. Pre-flight inspection for low power models is more traditional. When you show up at check-in with a HPR rocket you get asked who, if anyone, watched over you during preparation. If you opted not to have a buddy check the rocket guts, you pull the rocket apart for a check of recovery harness and parachute. You also get a more detailed quizzing on any electronics. Then you go on and get the traditional HPR inspection. I don't have a feeling as to whether it is making a difference or not as we haven't had this new policy for very long...

If the flyer not knowing enough, educate, (atack the problem and correct it).

I just don't see the relavance of experience with 3 fin rockets applied to saucers.

Of course they do, within reason.

Fred

Seems like it would be easier and faster to just prep your rocket at the RSO table since you would have to take it all apart again anyway. Seems pointless to me and would really piss me off to have to have someone babysit me while I'm prepping a rocket.

Do you fly with so many incompetent flyers that they consistently forget to hook up quick links or can't pack a chute or something?

Are you guys a NAR club?

Where do you guys fly? I need to make sure I stay away from those launches...

Andrew

Why do so many vocal people think that just because someone flies a saucer they're stupid? I've seen reference to people being afraid that someone will certify L1 and L2 on a saucer and then go out and fly a "L" motor in a 3fnc and crash it because they haven't proven they can pack a chute. That's pure bullshit and people that think like that and publicly post something so idiotic have just documented their ignorance.

Andrew

You didn't read my whole post did you? Just decided to snip 2/3rds the post and rally on about the top third of the post. There's your ignorance.

First off I ain't that vocal and second, unbelievable as it seems, I've seen many many many recovery failures due to the flyer NOT using the right delay. Saucer or no saucer. Like I mentioned before, it depends on the flyer.

And oh, lighten up, this is only *abusenet*.

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Nothing obviously wrong with using a short delay grain for a saucer but

Exactly!

The reverence I was trying to convey was to be directed to inexperienced flyers. The ones that keep making mistakes after mistakes etc. Whether it's a saucer or 3fnc or other.

Yup, and that's why I mentioned it. I leave the 'within reason' part for others to debate :)

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Hi Andrew: We talked about that but the check-in area is already busy enough. It didn't seem reasonable to expect the check-in personnel to be able to distribute their attention to that degree. Also, the

check-in area is far enough from the parking lot that it would be a hassle to haul all of your preparation stuff out there. And it isn't a good idea to have people occupied with preparing their rockets so close to the range head.

I think the buddy system is quite pleasant. The HPR fliers just park next to each other and we set up our prep tables next to each other. As you work on your rocket you chat with the other person and watch their progress. I find it easy to multi-task to that level. And it is fun to chat and see what the other person has done with their rocket.

Skydivers buddy check each other's setup. SCUBA divers buddy check each other. It just makes sense to me that we rocketry folks do the same. But I expect there are other ways to handle the problem. We decided to try this > Seems like it would be easier and faster to just prep your rocket at the RSO

Ted,

Don't take it so personal, your post is just the latest I've seen with the same bullshit. I see that you really don't disagree with anything I said your just upset that I seemed to pick on you. Sorry, didn't mean to and that's why your name was cut out of the post.

If there have been so many failures due to the flyer using the wrong delay then the RSO's don't know shit. Anybody doing RSO work should be able to tell if the delay is going to be in the ball park for the type of rocket and motor combination being flown. If a guy walks up to the RSO with a six pound rocket and a "H" motor in it is the RSO going to let him use the long delay? Whatever happened to the RSO asking the flyer how he determined the correct length of delay and deciding if the guy knew what he was talking about. If the RSO hasn't flown any saucers to determine if the delay is any good then why is he approving them in the first place, he should ask for help from someone that has.

I don't even fly saucers so I really don't give a rat's ass if they're legal for certification or not but I don't like the idea of people or organizations dictating to others and making an issue out of something that isn't. Saucers have been getting flown for so many years and they haven't brought the hobby crashing down yet nor will they.

Don't worry, it may be abusenet but I still love ya!

Andrew

Will,

I reread my last post and realize I came across as a complete asshole so I apologize to you.

I agree with someone asking for help if they need it but maybe the flyers should try concentrating more on their projects and doing less chatting. I understand rocketry is about the friends and fun everyone has but rockets are being prepped and flown and that's serious business. This may only be a hobby but it's a dangerous one and it should be treated that way. Mistakes can almost always be traced back to a lack of concentration or preparation and usually it's the same flyers tearing something up. That kind of tells me something and rules won't fix it.

Andrew

That's not what he, nor I, are saying at all.

That said, feel free to use it as a springboard to launch into your diatribe, but don't expect me to fight with you about it. I don't care what you do.

Ummm...ick. How in depth is this "mandatory disassembly"?

Hi Andrew: You're forgiven! 8) Posting is a difficult medium. Email is as bad.

I agree with you completely about distracti> Will,

As much as is necessary to satisfy the RSO that your rocket is ready to fly...

That would indeed be a pain on a complex project that was prepared at home.

How many times have you volunteered as RSO?

When you are RSO, do you disassemble the motors to make sure people didn't get grease on the delay? Do you measure the delay to make sure they put the right on in? If not, you could very well be one of those "RSO's that don't know shit."

Phil