NAR/TRA Joint Active Recovery Definition

I know a few ways to do "mandatory disassembly" in way less than a second. Reassembly might be pretty difficult. ;-)

Phil

I hear ya....no worries. I think we're all on the same page.

I must be spoiled as our local club the RSO does in fact ask those critical questions(as they should). But I've also heard(hearsay) horror stories about other clubs launch where the RSO is effectively 'missing'. However I think everyone here on rmr views the RSO on a whole as *the* individual who has the last say on what fly's or not.

Oh I'm feeling it brutha :)

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Phil,

With all due respect, what's your point and how is it relative to this discussion?

Andrew

Simply put, don't use a cert flight to do new things. Example: If you have never used an altimeter, a cert flight is not the time to learn.

By diatribe, I am referring to this:

My "I don't care" was shorthand for I don't care what you approve, or disapprove, for someone's cert flight. I don't care, as in "it's not my concern". A little too brief, I suppose.

I don't believe using an altimeter has that great a learning curve, for tha average rocketeer, to use 1st time in a L-2cert attempt, maybe even a L-3 attempt. Many years ago, I used a pair of Adept ALTS 25 altimeters to L-2 cert in a modified Magnum. First time I ever used them, or any other altimeter, was on the cert flight and I sure as he%% do not claim the sharpest tack in the box award.

If you didn't care or it's not my concern, why did you bother with the statement in the first place? Seems strange or was it just an unintentional attempt being high and mighty..

Fred

I don't know you. I'm trying to gauge your perspective. I also make the point that I doubt that any RSO is disassemling motors to check delays and that not even that will detect a situation where there is a problem with delay timing. The situation described happen and it doesn't mean the RSO don't know shit.

I RSO a lot and take exception to someone saying the RSO don't know shit when things get past. Also when something does get past, I know that I will think about weather there is something I could have done better to detect or prevent the situation that casued it.

Phil

Isn't this the same thing as decertifying rocket motors just because they're not currently being manufactured?

So, what sort of process do you want for "decertifying" such an individual?

- Should the chapter prefect have the sole say in being decertified?

- If two L1 or one L2 flier say that you should be decertified, you're out?

- How do you get notified of your decertification?

- can you appeal it, or is this a "privilege" above and beyond basic Citizenship which means the constitution doesn't apply anymore?

Then you get into the whole NFPA thing about posessing motors. Lets say you lost your HPR cert. How many motors would you immediately have to get rid of?

So, here's an idea I got from watching too many "morse code vs no code" arguments in the ham radio world: have a time limit on the certification. Say, every 3 years. You have to re-certify at each level within one year of each HPR cert expiring, or you lose that certs for that HPR level and higher.

Glen Overby

Hasn't been presented to the TRA BOD yet. It's, technically, not even "public", just a proposal.

Bob Kaplow wrote: ...

Statistics, shmatistics. B^P

Realistically, how many different CATEGORIES of failures can you have?

There kinda is.

Bad news spreads fast and, often, discouragement spreads faster. Flyers get bad reps at launches when there are scores of witnesses to every SNAFU a flyer makes. More often than not, the bad flyer never makes it longer than a season or two before hanging up the towel OR getting his act together.

There was one of those "bench flyers" in our club several years ago. Made it a point to be in on EVERY technical conversation within earshot, especially gravitating towards ones over his head. Never flew much, and when he did, he finally got the idea that streamers don't tangle, if you follow my drift. Few of those were even found on top of that.

His L1 was so WAAAY over the top that I'm surprised the RSO even bought into it. Imagine a central compartment that, at apogee, seperated the nose cone and aft airframe while they were still tethered to this central compartment. The main was to come out at 500'. BTW, did I mention this was an *L1*? Just checking...

At apogee, the rather energetic charge blasted the rocket into unattached three parts and spit the altimeter out whole. All the parts fosberry flopped in and his altimeter sled weaponized on impact with the lone 10 square feet of asphalt for miles (literally). Never saw him again.

(yet)!

That's a good philosophy if your only goal is to get the cert on the first attempt. As a hard and fast rule, I would have to disagree. If the flight fails because you tried something new and got it wrong, just try again the next time. There's no penalty for failing a cert flight, you simply don't get the cert. Safety isn't an issue either. Cert flights are not inherently more dangerous in the event of failure than any other failed flight.

Hi Ray: Cert flights have more scrutiny than other high power flights. Hopefully they have fewer failures as well. I'm looking forward to the NAR reporting system so we can get some data on what is going on in the field.

That being said the NAR safety study says we have too many recovery failures. I think we need to be very careful about making it an OK thing to have failures. The community has had some really close calls. At this rate we won't stay lucky forever...

Please pardon me if I've misinterpreted your posting.

I always use a plugged closure with my saucers. And as far as wind, the saucers are about the only thing that can be launched on a small-ish field in the wind. They do drift with the wind, but they also weather-c*ck so they tend to land near the pads whether it is windy or not. And if that's still a problem, then you can place your launch area up-wind or down-wind of the spectator area as needed. That should be done whether you are allowing saucers or not.

I would be interested in your results. I would agree with Andrew that it would annoy me to no end to have someone have to watch me prep my rocket. My rockets have as good a recovery rate as anyone. And, the times I have forgotten something or made a mistake, it was almost always because of a distraction caused by someone stopping by to watch. I'm not trying to critcize you for trying to solve the problem, just giving my two cents!