NFPA 112? Questions

ah, you saw "King Rat", eh?

- iz

Bob Kaplow wrote:

naive Ray

Bruce Kelly isn't on the TRA BoD either, do you really believe that he exerts no influence?

BTW: both Gary and Bruce have NFPA seats

see my post dated 2003-12-02 20:58:15 PST in the thread "Re: NFPA and rocketry (Re: typo in NFPA1127 ?)" for a current list of all NFPA committee members

- iz

RayDunak> Gary Rosenfield hasn't been on the BOD in several years, and I'm pretty sure he

He also has said that the DOT rejected his BOE testing.

Those things do not affect the legality of the product as it relates to shipping and commerce.

Really? Did he post anything about the K motors that were shipped unmarked via air parcel post? Did he post anything about the DOT denying that the EX numbers he submitted belonged to him?

jerry: so lets see if I got this right.... You are willing to throw up an image of a 17 yr old EX number which corresponds to 1 propellant formulation....and I assume a non-Jerry propellant formulation at that .. and you state that you have an additional 50 EX numbers which may be ACS-Reaction Labs and corresponds to another 50 propellant formulations, or which may be Jerry/?/USR propellant formulations or some combination of ACS-Reaction Labs/Jerry/?/USR propellant formualtions. And the only EX number that you sent to either the NAR or the TRA was the 1 ACS-Reaction Labs EX number.....? IS that basically the gist of it? Can you tell us how many of these 50+ additional EX numbers are ACS-Reaction Labs vs USR or whatever name they were registered under?

more comments inline..........

You're gonna have to resend that email as I can't find it..... and besides what harm could it possibly do to ask the DOT what the status of that 1 EX number is? Or maybe they will tell us something that you aren't telling us?

formulations.....in

So what is the answer to the question? Are current Jerry/?/USR motors CSFM classified/permitted in PRK ? Yes or No ?

Depending on your answer to the above CSFM questiion.. are you currently legally able to sell your motors in the state of california? Should I call and ask them directly? Jerry, you aren't selling motors in the state of Claifornia without the CSFM's knowledge and consent are you? DO you have the CSFM Importer/Exporter License? DO you have the CSFM Wholesaler License? Exactly what CSFM licenses do you have if any?

shockie B)

Jerry: can you post this supposed dot/bor denial test report ?

shockie B)

well yes you can force the NAR/TRA to follow NFPA codes....since the NFPA codes are adopted and become state laws.....you can go to the state fire marshall in that specific state and inform the state fire marshall the fact that the NAR/TRA is not following the law in certifying motors.....

shockie B)

my cat can still kick your dogs butt BOB......

13 confirmed kills during 1 6 week span this past summer......he killed so many birds, they moved out of the neighborhood.....

shockie B) ...proud owner of a confirmed hunter/killer....

Whatever their reason is, the fact remains that they aren't interested in selling motors enough to do what it takes.

and the TRA needs to remove BK from his NFPA seat.......among other positions like, TRA HQ, HPR,etc need I say more.....

I personally don't beleive that manufactuerers like Aerotech,etc should be allowed to sit on the NFPA PYRO committee that ends up making essentially what becomes state laws, as its a conflict on interest.......

shockie B)

It may have been as simple as NAR/TRA saying to CAR something like, "you know, we'd be a lot more willing to make a reciprocal agreement with you guys if this one provision were present..."

-dave w

So what if it was? Does it really matter?

-dave w

Why is this an issue? If you have ONE KNOWN ENTITY that you can deal with, why would you need more than that? If Jerry is willing to put his butt on the line and say "I'm the one responsible for these motors that are being certified", how is that ANYONE else's business? If he is breaking the law, then report him to the AHJ. And since that apparently has happened, but the AHJ hasn't taken any action, then maybe he hasn't broken the law! And frankly, Ray, what is it about this whole situation that get's your panties in a wad trying to do everything possible to explain why Jerry's motors can't be certified?

Again, I have precisely ZERO interest in whether or not Jerry gets his motors certified. But, I have to say, seeing this much effort being put forth to prevent ANY vendor from marketing their product in the community stinks to high heaven.

Are there some safety issues involved? Did Jerry's motors CATO and injure someone? What the heck is going on here that so much effort is being expended on this (by both sides)?

As I've stated several times, my concern is in how the OVERALL motor certification process occurs, but what APPEARS to be taking place is ludicrous. Yes, Jerry appears to have a prodigious ego, besides inventing the internet. I wasn't involved in rocketry during that timeframe, so I can only listen to what folks say about it. There are often comments that Jerry makes that I find highly offensive, and on some of those I've called him on it (publically). But the anti-Jerry crowd seems to have this blood-in-the-water mentality that I can't comprehend.

David Erbas-White

Have him submit the motors. Gee, have him contact the TMT. Nope, too hard best bitch for another 5 years. Love the attitude. Get nothing done and make a big deal about it.

PERFECT jerry answer. You win the prize for most useless addition to the discussion.

WHAT specifically is the bad policy. There's numbers next to the paragraphs, list them.

Do you agree it's sad that in the past the motors haven't been certified because of bad people, and now instead of deal with new people the solution is to sit and bitch?

There are new people on the TMT. Have they been talked to?

Fine. List the provisions in the code that must be removed. I see you thrive on JI responses. Hey, did you know there's been a change in the TMT in the last 5 years. Different people, wow what has the alleged manufacturer done to take advantage of that fact?

No, sqeaky wheel has already gone away. Loved the name calling and will never see it again.

And as for caring, I was perfectly willing to participate in the testing, video and insure data was produced and copied for the manufacturer. Then the meds wore off and the name calling 5 year old came out. You can see that happen in google searches too. So I guess I have to agree with you. Like everyone else who's tired of yearing a 5 year old screaming in the doctor's office, I've simply tuned it out...

Hey, same tact as JI. I'm seeing a trend here...

Why google? How about the manufacturer's web site which should have all the documentation required to certify. What, outta space? But then, JI has no interest in the manufacturer, the dealer, or distributor.

Yeah, do a search on the EX number and see what the responses were 2 years ago.

Funny Jerry.

Joel. phx

What "new people"? Has TMT given any indication that they aren't going to be playing the same old "exclusion games"?

-dave w

Yeah, I heard they gave up because the motors were too complex.

steve :>)