NFPA 112? Questions

Not any longer. I discontinued my membership in April. Would you be so kind as to re-post it here?

Sorry Ray, but I'm just going to have to call you wrong here. The boxes show up and TRA is unaware until they arrive at their door. How are they criminally liable for those actions? The crime was shipping, not receiving. Now, if they requested them to be shipped via air, they may have comitted a crime. If they knew they were being shipped illegally before they shipped and failed to notify the proper authorities they _may_ have comitted a crime. If they refuse them and fail to properly notify the driver that he is carrying illegal materials, they may have comitted a crime. But in these cases, their crime was negligence or failure to report, not receiving.

Well, myself and a few hundred of my closest friends witnessed and documented it. Do a google search on "LDRS 2000 [or 19] manufacturer demo" and check the late 2000/ early 2001 issues of HPR for public documentation and discussion about the issue.

Yes, they do. It is a classic case of: "We can't figure out how to feasibly do what we need to, but we can't be seen as doing nothing, so we better implement something even if it does not remotely meet our original goals. At least we can report back that we took action on the issue."

For $140/yr I purchased an umbrella liability policy from the company that provides my homeowners insurance. They are very aware of my activities (including EX, etc.) and have assured my that I am covered for any act that does no constitute liability resulting from willful comission of a crime (such as aiming a rocket at a home - their example). They agent even cited a recent payout where the teenage son was soaking tennis balls in gasoline and bouncing them for fun. Being a teenager, he failed to forsee the possibility that an errant flaming ball flying into the woods would result in the lose of a neighbors home. It did, they paid.

Philip

So does a few days in ICU.

Rest assured that it will not be addressed. It has been addressed to their satisfaction and you can go pound sand. Ask one too many times and you will be invited to come to the meeting youself (Colorado I believe) where you spend a great deal of money on tr avel and lodging to get the same response in person.

Philip Doolittle NAR#73889 L2

The changes were much more than color. Color became signiticant when it was discovered that the RED liners had a propensity to cause the motor to CATO. The problem was so bad that at the NSL that year, AT was present handing out replacement liners by the handful.

Philip

Oh man. Tennis ball cannons. Lighter fluid. Flaming ball of death.

What memories.

Joel. phx

Perfectly correct answer. The location varies each time too.

Expert sand pounder.

Jerry

Is this a rhethorical question? We are NOT listening. We do NOT care. TRA listserv is always accurate and never misdirects. Kelly is always truthful and honors his agreements. Rogers is the bastion of honor and truth and would never lie to cover his ass.

When (Earth based mamilian) pigs fly.

Jerry

He said this moments before this wasteof bandwidth of yours:

DP:

From reading the rest of your answers, it would appear that you have missed (or choose to ignore) quite a bit.

~ Duane Phillips.

Jerry

Email me any new prospects. I will add them to the pool. The fund only accepts 3 reinsurers at at ime, but with a waiting list there should never be a shortage.

That's just funny!

Horsehockey!!! The manufacturer may have their own reasons for not wanting to get involved in this (and given the 10 year history of the TRA nonsense, that seems pretty wise, frankly).

I used to manufacture some cigarette-lighter adapter power-supplies for the HP-41. It turns out the Army wanted a few hundred of them. They contacted me, and told me that in order to sell them to the Army, I would have to get them mil-spec approved. I told them to pound sand. Their solution was to hire a consulting firm that bought one of my adapters, drew up all the mil-spec papers, then they went to a retailer and bought them. God only knows how much money that cost the taxpayers (for the consulting work), but they were not remotely willing to pay me for 'mil-specing' them, and at a couple of bucks apiece profit I had no interest in it.

There are LOTS of reasons a manufacturer won't get involved in something like this. I really can't think of a rational reason for not allowing sub-contracting in this regard. Any arguments that I can think of in favor of banning it are easily countered by minor changes in wording.

David Erbas-White

This should be in the FAQ.

I swear someone will make $1.50 if they write a book with all this history.

But anyway, they upgraded the delay liner and reduced/eliminated catos? Would batch testing results not have shown they were still within spec or do they need to submit motors every time a new batch of AP comes to the plant?

Joel. phx

well pretty soon we are going to put this to a test and put it to rest once and for all.... As soon as I get the NAR S&T procedures for certifying motors, we will go down the list, item by item, and allow JI to produce such documentation as required by the NAR S&T process....If JI cannot produce such documentation as required by each step then we know whos telling the truth and who isn't...

It very simple really.. answer me this Jerry: What are the DOT Ex-numbers that you have for your proepllant formulations? Aerotech publishes on its website a listing of their DOT EX numbers and the paperwork that accompanies it....I challenge you to do the same....Once you publish the DOT EX numbers I will personally spend my hard earned money and I will call the DOT and find out their exact position on those EX numbers....

Its my understanding and I may be wrong as this can be difficult to follow, but JI states I beleive that he has purchased the assets of ACS Reaction Labs. ANd ACS Reaction LABs had their propellants DOT tested which resulted in ACS Reaction LAbs getting valid EX numbers for their propellant formulations. Remember you get 1 DOT EX number for each propellant formulation....Now 1 question I will ask the DOT is, are EX numbers transferrable from one corporate entity to another corporate entity.. ie can the EX numbers be reassigned to another company ? I would say probably yes, but if JI/USR is creating APCP motors using "jerry" propellant formulations, for which he has no DOT EX numbers and is trying to pass off his "jerry" propellant formulations as ACS-Reaction Labs propellant formulations.....in other words, if JI/USR create "new" orginal propellant formulations that are substanitally different from the ACs Reaction LAbs propellant formulations,then it is JI's responsibility to get those new propellant formulations tested for new and different DOT EX numbers.....

I have another very simple question: Jerry are your motors classified and certified as are Aerotech motors by the CSFM? See the AeroTech website for his CSFM documentation? Are you legally able to sell your motors in the state of PRK ? DO you have the appropriate CSFM paperwork? IF so, then publish it....

shockie B)

detractors,

And that company is presently producing the motors I purchase from USR? If so, what is your relationship in this deal? Agent? Distributor? OEM customer?

Well, as you are not manufacturing, I see so need for one either.

Frank is clearly manufacturing without a permit.

I didn't open that can of worms because it over complicates the discussion and will be largely moot if the federal issue is resolved.

Here's where I get very confused. You don't need a permit but you submit one from DPT. What is your relationship to DPT and how does DPT relate to this issue? Also, how does ACS play into the picture. I'm really trying to understand, but I'm not getting there. Help me to understand.

Thank you, I will. You do the same.

there are actually a few "good men" that think a issue through to it's natural conclusion, and have a view to empowering us (as opposed to TRA's view of self-preservation and dominance)

Duane is among that group, and the hobby needs more of them, especially representing us on the NFPA

- iz

Joel Corwith wrote:

wow, what an endorsement! what is teh insurer?

my personal liability rider (in my renters insurance) is from State Farm

- iz

Philip D. wrote: