On-topic: More BS in the Granola State

Its slightly more complicated than that since you also need a surface

- provided by the Polar Stratospheric Clouds during the winter and spring. Which also brings up the point that you probably don't really need UV protection when there's hardly any sunlight anyway. Ground UV levels may rise as a percentage of incident in the spring, but how much does this affect the peak UV flux during the summer or the total UV dose integrated over a full year? It seems to me those two numbers should be more important if you are worried about how it affects plants and animals on the ground, not how much ozone is gone in a cold atmosphere with a grazing angle incidence of sunlight (unless your real goal is to keep your research funded).

Certainly you can slant assumptions and pick and choose data to support whatever your pet view is. Requiring a cost/benefit analysis doesn't necessarily solve that, but it should allow everyone to see the assumptions and the development of the analysis so they can take shots at it. The linear dose/response model should be viewed as an assumption. It is certainly plausible that the body has some repair capability that should make it non-linear, however it is then incumbent on you to select one and provide a reasonably persuasive argument for preferring it over the simple linear one - which will probably be hard to do. The system also needs to enforce a high benefit/cost ratio requirement since you will invariably have hidden, unanticipated costs and it is certainly not unusual for advocates to overstate the benefits. This also means you really need to calibrate the required benefit/cost ratio by going back to previous decisions and attempting to assess what the real benefits and costs were. I suspect something like a factor of five would be marginal if you want

95% confidence that a given change would actually provide a break-even benefit. There are also opportunity costs that may be hidden as well.

The Peer-Review process is the worst - except for all of the others. Science isn't perfect, either, but at least it is self-correcting over time.

Brad Hitch

Reply to
Brad Hitch
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zoot wrote in news:3mronvgvidr343ldc7kkjl34s0tcqhg2p8@

4ax.com:

Just to keep the facts straight, it was arsenic, not cyanide.

BTW, do you think arsenic cyanide [As(CN)5?] is poisonous?

len.

Reply to
Leonard Fehskens

I think that was probably necessary to prevent a widespread panic.

Sure makes you wonder how people ever got things done in previous wars and disasters. I don't recall anyone griping to the government about "hazardous environmental conditions" in cleaning up Pearl Harbor in '41, or San Francisco in '06, etc.

Reply to
RayDunakin

Dave, You re absolutely correct. There are two definite strain of white lab rat that were bred over the past 50 years and are used as the predominant testing vehicles, the Wistar and Sprague-Dawley rats. I often wonder what the outcome would have been if testing had been done on NY City rats. My guess is that nothing would be found to be a carcinogen. ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Reply to
Mark Simpson

lots of good stuff deleted

That's the key, time. Many Global Warmers have since jumped off of the bandwagon and given enough time, the ones that don't will likely fall under the wheels. ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Reply to
Mark Simpson

I don't think being smart and not working necessarily follow one another. The smartest people that I know still work even if they don't have to. It keeps them sharp. An idle mind is the Democrat's playground. >;-) Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Reply to
Mark Simpson

Jack Benny: Now THAT'S funny!

Randy

Reply to
Randy

Mark, one can do work without working for a living.

Reply to
RayDunakin

Now that's funny!

Ted Novak TRA#5512

Reply to
the notorious t-e-d

By any chance, are you a creationist, too?

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Hardly idle. Read my statement again. I've been busy, just doing things that are useful. Rather than just making money for myself, I'm trying to make things better for everyone.

Even you.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Not trying to challenge you here but can you give an example?

Just curious.

Ted Novak TRA#5512

Reply to
the notorious t-e-d

Install brain. Filter it.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

He won that point Mark.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Well, against his will . . .

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

How about helping to set up an after-school program for inner-city kids?

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Having done that on a small scale before (Los Angeles, CA) with a single series of classes through 2 science museums for about 8 years and a few groups per session, I can tell you it has a PROFOUND effect. Kids that are seemingly just shooting rockets for fun seem to learn an interest in various sciences by osmosis and later take on more technical challenges than any control group I have ever seen.

It got to the point where parents who had heard about the class and comments from prior parents would COMPETE for limited spots in the classes.

This came tumbling down starting with Proposition 13 as these were state sponsored classes on state property and all funding was withdrawn (due to a recession and a tax revolt) and the majority of parents were either unable or unwilling to pay full boat tuition.

But times have changed. Rockets are less expensive as compared to wages and salaries now and full boat tuition has not changed much, so the affordability index has more than doubled. Maybe tripled.

Not sure if there are even any governmental programs at all that can aford to subsidize someting as prodictive as that any more. Pretty sure union represented police have a higher priority these days, due to their lobby.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Good deal! I used to donate my time for city youth hockey.

What does your program consist of?

Ted Novak TRA#5512

Reply to
moonglow

Ahhnold! I thought you were busy on the campaign trail?!?

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

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Reply to
Jerry Irvine

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