question for Mark Bundick

Yup. Let down is more accurate (and I'm only a little bit let down).

We flew the Estes V-2 3 times on the E9-4 just two weeks ago. Great flights. People loved it. 6 foot steel rod, 1/4 inch in diameter with little 'breeze'. The F21-4 is much faster for those built really overweight (too much epoxy and/or paint) and the F21-6 is great for those built light. They almost fly too fast with the F21, but if you fly where it's breezy, go for the F21.

I picked up 6 packs of F21-4 motors at the e-Hobbies 'store' on the corner of their warehouse. One pack left.

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

-- ""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.

"Greg Cisko" wrote in news:iMy7b.651$ev2.466680 @newssrv26.news.prodigy.com:

5000 *SENIOR* members. And unless you are intimately familiar with the NAR budget, analogizing any increased income from the dues increase is probably offbase.

len.

"Greg Cisko" wrote in news:wdy7b.637$ev2.458320 @newssrv26.news.prodigy.com:

Well, I know real value when I see it!

len.

Hey is was just a guess :-)

John DeMar wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@removethis.syr.edu:

Dues were not raised "across the board". Only senior dues were raised.

len.

Yes but the INTERNAL structure would fire a bad worker, change policies when they hurt the firm, and have ongoing reviews to streamline operations. NAR and TRA have none of that. Quite the opposite.

That simply changes the subject. Fron the company policies are broken and not getting fixed, to but the volunteers are not committing fraud or have commercial conflicts of interest. Who cares. I would rather have

12 Scottt Dixon's running NAR if it made NAR recognize 55.141-a-8 in practice for consumers, vendors, manufacturers, and, made them adjust NFPA codes away from codify everything, to exempt everything and let firms and associations continue to set standards as they have successfully done since before 1958 with an impeccable safety and anti-terrorism record. Before both were buzzwords you might choose to take note of.

This should be in the FAQ.

Jerry

But only because it is a psychological and behavioral truism.

Jerry

How many 'seniors' are not also paying 'junior' dues?

Joel. phx

Or instead of? :(

No my personality that does have a LEUP uses propellants.

Phil

Phil Stein

I urge you to read and follow 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 and follow it. It is the law. Do not violate it and commit felonies.

There are *NO* LEUP motors per 27 CFR 555.141-a-8. Do not violate the law and commit multiple felonies.

That's right.

"The future of HPR is not solid." - Korey Kline Htpertek circa 1994

You have already surrendered the one law that saves you, 555.141-a-8, so we have lost already.

Jerry

Wait a second, Mark. Those events pay for themselves. For the past several years they've actually made money for the NAR. Your example is a bad one, but I know what you are getting at. You want everybody to be 'taxed' by their NAR dues regardless of what services they use or the burden they might put on other members. And I thought you were a good 'tow the line' conservative. ;)

Nah, ask Bunny. He says the membership numbers are 'elastic' historically. Personally, I think the triple punch of the economy, the dues increase, and BATFE (complete with FUD helpers) is just too much for the NAR to expect the numbers to rebound "as they always have".

Once your son hits the NAR senior member point (next year?), it's $50 for him to keep his NAR number and read your magazine.

-John

chris: If the larger LEUP motors are "paying" for the smaller non leup motors, = how did Aerotech stay in business for all those years prior to their = being LEUP motors... Perhaps you mean the smaller engines were/are "loss leaders" ? I find some of this hard to digest...... it seems to me that many more EFG motors are sold on an anuual basis = than LMN motors...... I suspect that the "margin" of profit on the smaller motors may be less = than the margin of profit on the larger motors dues to labor costs.....

shockie B)

involvement in

Yeah, that's what he meant, but it came out like this;

IF, I mean IE if the motors sold do come out on top of sales its because theier bigger and not more powerful but cost more EACH to make and/or produce but not persay sell for more.

steve

Wow John, I never pictured you as one of those "I don't do (fill in the blank) so why should I pay for it" whiners.

Consider this: Mod rocs have a history of involvement in fires here in So. CA, mainly due to kids launching illegally and in a dangerous manner. I've never heard of anything like that involving high power. So why should the high power folks pay higher premiums due to the actions of modroc flyers?

As for your claim that reducing rocketry regs will only benefit high power flyers, that's extremely short-sighted at best. Even IF the ATF never expands its regs into the modroc spectrum, there will still be a sizeable impact on the hobby if high power is over-regulated.

I've decided to "put my money where my mouth is", and have renewed my membership in the NAR. I was briefly a member back in the early 90's. At that time I joined to protect high power rocketry and protest the NAR's attempts to cut TRA out of the loop. Now I'm rejoining in order to support the NAR and the hobby as a whole. (And so I can get the magazine!)

I agree with you BUT while there have been Modoc fires in SoCal, there have also been several "incidents" with HPR. Of course, it's difficult to compare since the numbers of Modrocs sold (and presumably launched) are orders of magnitude beyond the HPR numbers. I personally know of no HPR caused fires (not that I have a database...), but there are those pesky newspaper articles that people hand me about giant rockets going through roofs (with the usual bomb squad response followed by "it's just a rocket - no need to panic" and the accompanying "men seen running from a nearby field"). Then there's those H powered rockets embedded in the little league field and golf course surrounding the old Mile Square Park.

I see no problem with the higher dues for the 'seniors' vs. the kids.

Healthy HPR (done legally) keeps prices for the composite MR motors in the affordable range.

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 Avoid fires - convert your Venus Probe to 24mm:

-- ""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.

Last time I looked, dues were voluntary, taxes aren't. I chose to join the NAR even though I knew that I wouldn't be taking advantage of ALL of NAR's programs. I wish that I could chose which Federal programs that I wanted my taxes to go towards.

Agreed.

By the time he does, rocketry will be the farthest thing from his mind. ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers