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Re: [AD] Hangar 11, Inc. Cesaroni September BACK to SCHOOL special PROXX in stock....

Hi All

> > Hangar 11, Inc has just received a fresh shipment of CTI PROXX Hardware and > reloads for the > September BACK TO SCHOOL Special. > > 25% off PRO 38 and PRO 54 HW OR !/2 price reload with a HW purchase. > > Fedex ground shipping is available or pick up at METRA, NEPRA or CTRA > launches. > > All major CC accepted, Paypal, Personal checks, Money Orders and Cash... > LEUP required for ALL reload purchases EXCEPT the 133-G69-12A

I ask why considering 27 CFR 555.141-a-8?

Seriously.

> Webstore orderform for CTI is under construction please email orders to > snipped-for-privacy@hangar11.com >
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webstore order form should be online by Sunday night 9/14. > > Thanks > Bobby B > > > Hardware Part Number MSRP PROMO MSRP > 38mm Hardware > 1 Grain Casing P38-1G 27.45 20.59 > 2 Grain Casing P38-2G 32.95 24.71 > 3 Grain Casing P38-3G 39.55 29.66 > 4 Grain Casing P38-4G 46.15 34.61 > 5 Grain Casing P38-5G 51.65 38.74 > 6 Grain Casing P38-6G 57.15 42.86 > ProDAT - 38 P38-DAT 15.35 11.51 > 54mm Hardware > 2 Grain Casing P54-2G 51.65 38.74 > 3 Grain Casing P54-3G 64.85 48.64 > 4 Grain Casing P54-4G 79.15 59.36 > 5 Grain Casing P54-5G 91.25 68.44 > 6 Grain Casing P54-6G 99.00 74.25 > Pro54 Rear Closure P54-CL 61.55 46.16 > ProDAT - 54 P54-DAT 27.45 20.59 > > Pro38 Reload Kits > 62.5g Grains > 1 Grain Reload Kit 133 - G69-12A 23.05 11.53 > 2 Grain Reload Kit 244 -H153-13A 30.75 15.38 > 3 Grain Reload Kit 384 -I205-15A 38.45 19.23 > 4 Grain Reload Kit 512 -I285-15A 43.95 21.98 > 5 Grain Reload Kit 648 -J285-15A 50.55 25.28 > 6 Grain Reload Kit 765 -J330-16A 57.15 28.58 > Smokey Sam > 1 Grain Reload Kit 129G79-SS-13A 23.05 11.53 > 2 Grain Reload Kit 247H143SS-13A 30.75 15.38 > 3 Grain Reload Kit 364I212SS-14A 38.45 19.23 > 4 Grain Reload Kit 486I287SS-15A 45.05 22.53 > 5 Grain Reload Kit 601I350SS-16A 51.65 25.83 > 6 Grain Reload Kit 700J400SS-16A 58.25 29.13 > > Pro54 Reload Kits > Standard Propellant > 2 Grain Reload Kit 836J210-16A 62.65 31.33 > 3 Grain Reload Kit 1195J295-16A 82.45 41.23 > 4 Grain Reload Kit 1635K445-17A 102.25 51.13 > 5 Grain Reload Kit 2060K570-17A 122.05 61.03 > 6 Grain Reload Kit 2437K660-17A 140.00 70.00 > Smokey Sam > 2 Grain Reload Kit 716J280SS-16A 63.75 31.88 > 3 Grain Reload Kit 1043J380SS-16A 85.75 42.88 > 4 Grain Reload Kit 1412K530SS-16A 106.65 53.33 > 5 Grain Reload Kit 1750K650SS-16A 127.55 63.78 > > >
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
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Agreed. Until there is a ruling that our motors do not fit under PAD classification, why bother with LEUP's. IMO, both major rocketry organizations should have asserted this early on. The ATF would have to try and prove that our motors don't fit into this category before they can legally enforce anything. Secondly, the PROPOSED 62.5 g limit has not passed the NPRM phase. Thirdly, there is currently no evidence of enforcement from the ATF, most likely because they currently don't have a leg to stand on..

Aerotech is currently telling dealers to sell the 38mm reloads aka "easy access" to certified fliers, no permit needed at least until the NPRM process is completed. CTI "should" be following suit.

Unjustified fear, and paranoia is killing my business. Now get outside and fly some rockets.

Mike Fisher Binder Design

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Reply to
Mfreptiles

Mike, Tammie's hobbies *is* asking for a LEUP to buy the 38mm motors.

John

Reply to
a.hornsbyiii

EXACTLY.

And there will be no such ruling.

EXACTLY.

But they didn't. And worse when later begged by many they didn't chaneg and join the bandwagon of legality, giving ATF more fuel.

EXACTLY.

Agreed.

Mike you so rule.

This should be in the FAQ!

I'll fly rockets with you anytime.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

That's just wack!

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Jerry Irvine wrote: > In article , > snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Mfreptiles) wrote: >

I guess I misinterpreted the ATF letter in Exhibit H of:

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It looks tome like the ATF clearly states that rocket motors are NOT exempt under the PAD exemption.

Reply to
David Schultz

I am curious. Is what they state binding on anyone at all except licensees?

Thank you for your ruling.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Incorrect. That was NOT their court argument. Exhibit H is a letter from the ATF to the NAR/TRA lawyer predating the lawsuit stating their official position. Including the infamous "inartfully drafted" disclaimer.

Reply to
David Schultz

It most certainly DOES:

27 CFR 55.11, "Propellant Actuated Device. Any tool or special mechanized device or gas generator system which is actuated by a propellant or which releases and directs work through a propellant charge."

That's a fact. Hence why we need to educate THEM on the law and not volunteer for illegal permits or storage items.

Yes indeedidoo.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

It was provided to TRA, NAR lawyers in preparation for the lawsuit.

ATF is using this "expanded definition" of what does and does not constitute a PAD as a court argument. Even though, according to James Brown, Chief, Explosive Division, ATF, admits that an assembled rocket motor is exempt under PAD as early as 1994.

ATF's current "expanded definition" does not match the orange book...remember, their "bible". Most anyone in the scientific community would agree that a rocket would fit into the PAD exemption (as taken from the orange book) quite well.

Mike F.

Reply to
Mfreptiles

What I should have said, is that the orange book does not support the ATF's "expanded definition" of what they feel constitutes a PAD, depending on what day of the week it is.

The orange book is the law. Follow it.

Mike F.

Reply to
Mfreptiles

Now if we could just get the ATF to do the same...

Reply to
RayDunakin

We cannot. Have you heard of citizens arrests?

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

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