Re: NAR Board of Trustees

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No I am not

You are wrong. you purposely (or maybe accidentally I will give you the benifit of the doubt) ignored the parts where I said FOR THE MOST PART.

the configuration of our minds DOES bely certain pesonality tendencies but what HAPPENS to these and how these will be enacted again for the most part is determined by the parents and society.

there is no such thing in my book as an EVIL child. its an oxymoron (right word ?) evil is a human generated term. it does not exist in nature. same with "bad"

a normal person (ie mentally defective people are not covered under this) tend to take the direction that parents and society direct them OR will naturally take the path of least resistance if given no direction.

I disagree. I say each kid is a blank slate with a personality overlay that "alters" their mentality to a small extent IE deviating from how they are raised and how they interact with their enviroment. IE you say they have a personality and the enviroment changes. I say the opposite that they have the enviroment and the personality changes its effect on them.

Are they bad children ? is either one a nasty person ? Delinquent ? getting into massive trouble (not kids stuff) ? if no to all congradulations you did a good job. You raised them to be good people and their born in personality traits simply made them unique from each other and the rest of us but still GOOD people. (I am assuming this because I can not see you as a bad parent)

Cop out.

Chris Taylor

when I was in grade school in the 60s disruptive students only needed treatment once or twice at the most. and treatment was not chemical, but generally made out of wood, a nice smooth board of education it was labeled.

every one was cured, but social scientitsts and other types did not get rich.

Yes, she was the witch.

Randy

Lord know SOME of it's definitely genetic. I've got the curse of parents everywhere, a child just like her father. . . .

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President

Yeah, truly amazing. 100% effective. Must be the reason there were no drop outs, delinquents, dissidents, or rebellious students in the 60's. I can't believe spankings didn't proliferate after your school's incredible success. If only one or two other schools, or even a few parents, had spanked students back then it might have caught on and solved the social problems of our country.

Jesus wept.

You suck in more carbon monoxide stuck in traffic than you'll ever get from second-hand smoke so do you live in the Boonies as a precaution?

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Atlas shrugged. ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

This is the way it is in Indiana. I believe the title 9 program is federal. So why would a teacher want to deal with a disruptive student? State he is ADD and have him druged. No problem for you to deal with anymore. Why would a Doctor rubber stamp it, He gets payed for visits. On top of this the local school system I dealt with at one time would make the Dr. recomendation. Gues who that would be? The Doctor they knew whould rubber stamp it. The lady my wife baby sat for, all 3 of here boys were on Ritilan. They were taken off when her new family Doctor asked why they were on it? Then told of all the side effects. Mom decided it was better to dissiplan those boys instead and amazingly 9yrs. later none are drugged and all are productive members of society.

Dennis

"Mark Simpson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net...

As a side note to the Ritalin discussion, I have a friend who has his son on Ritalin. They were late to see us one night, and the boy had a black eye and a broken arm. Why? It turns out that while on Ritalin, he blacks out about once every 6-9 months, and just passes out. This time, unfortunately, he fell over a chair at school when it occurred, causing the damage (my friend was ever so thankful it happened at school with witnesses, who knows what the system would have done to him otherwise). I was shocked that they took it as a matter of course that Ritalin would have this kind of reaction.

As a further note, we went on some joint vacations with this father and son, and once in a while the dad would indicate that the son 'needed his Ritalin' or that 'the Ritalin was wearing off'. To my eye, the boy was simply acting normally, albeit slightly (and I stress only slightly) more hyper than at other times. If that was the extent of his ADD, he honestly didn't have much to worry about...

David Erbas-White

Okay. I admit to being naive and inexperienced in this regard. I work in a spec ed school with only spec ed and vocational teachers who are all highly motivated towards student success (no one there is in the job for the money, I can guarantee you that). There is no economic incentive like you describe for us; all our students are classified spec ed for one reason or another. In general, a diagnosis or evaluation made on our students is done by an existing family practitioner. The district psychs usually make placement recommendations, not diagnoses. But when they do, there is considerable testing and evaluation.

I'm a little taken aback by the implications of your scenario, I must admit. In fact, you have me speechless for the moment. I would never even have imagined a school district using financial incentives to prompt non-spec ed teachers to accomodate spec ed students in a regular classroom. From my experience, it would be an extremely poor choice, even given the social interaction aspect (separating spec ed students from the general student population IS a downside to our program).

As I said, I'm speechless. Allow me an excuse and then I will check out this Title 9 stuff.

My previous comments were made from the perspective of a student-centered, dedicated special education program. The scenario you describe, and the implications of such a scenario, are completely foreign to our program and my teaching experience. Neither the policies nor the intent of this program encourage the abuses you have mentioned. The people I work with are highly trained, motivated, and dedicated individuals whose sole concern is the success and welfare of our students. That may sound like an advertisement, but I can't really word it any better. Having said that, please allow that my previous posts reflect actual experience, albeit (apparently) limited and possibly unique.

Thanks, Mark, for "pushing" me into this realization.

Get a grip. It's sarcasm, okay? Are you aware of what happened in the

Although I wonder if Jesus would, indeed, weep:

Proverbs 23:13-14 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die. You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Gary, I believe that what you are observing are the differences between someone wish actual experience... and someone who has an opinion and a keyboard.

Welcome to Usenet ;)

Anyone who is truly aware of what happened in the 60's never really experienced them.

I realize our collective IQ drops substantially when responding to Chris Taylor but you are missing something very important. You are giving examples that are harmful to the person taking the risk and not to an innocent bystander (the highway example notwithsanding!). Breathing cigarette smoke contains carcinogens (fact), breathing small particulates causes lung irritation and is linked to many respiratory diseases including cancer (fact), and exposure does not require a person to be a smoker (fact). For some reason you are not being your regular logical self on this one, Mark.

If "second-hand" exposure to particulates and airborne carcinogens doesn't bother you, then why wear safety gear when handling any lab chemicals? Afterall, you're not sticking the thing in your mouth and directly inhaling. ;)

For the sake of disclosure, I've designed microgram-level precision particulate detectors for the mining industry.

-John DeMar NAR #52094

Ritalin is just like any other medication. Some people react badly to it. There are alternatives that can be prescribed, although they too have side-effects that can be just as bad if not worse.

Ted

My father went one step further. He always wanted me to have a child that would do to me what I did to him. Sadly he never got to see his wish.

Insanity is heridetary: you get it from your kids.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Gary wrote: much deleted

That's my goal in life "enlightenment". I was shocked to find out how the game was palyed myself, Gary. Needless-to-say, I lost my bid for school board because I took on the MEA for this and many of their other unethical practices and wanted the dreaded "A" word, accountability. I had teachers telling me that I was "anti-education" because of it. I reminded them that my kids were in gifted programs and smiled back at them.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

You obviously don't know how to read, he/she troll. I spoke from experience; I read the teacher's contract. It was there in B&W. Now go back under your bridge little man/woman.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers