Re: Ny/Nj Senators on "hold"

I find the language in this posting generally unhelpful to a productive discussion.

When I purchased property earlier this year, I paid a local soils engineer almost $1,000 to do a couple hours work and write a 4 page report, nearly 1/3 of which was canned from other such reports. But I needed to be sure the land would support a foundation for a home, and thus I needed not my untrained look at the place, but a professional with the right skills and background to do the job right. So I paid the fee becasue not doing so might leave me with a very expensive bog.

The NAR and TRA have agreed to pay a professional a fee in order to take advantage of his experience and network in Washington. That experience and network has a demonstrated successful track record in the Congress. I don't necessarily like doing it, but I think it's cheaper than not getting the right counsel and failing. If we try to do this for free or on the cheap, we're adding risk to a process that, I believe events have already borne out, is quite risky.

Dick Embry and I both engage John in extended conversations during the course of the legislative work, and we've debated strategy ,etc with John and adjusted as we thought best to secure an unregulated future for sport rocketry. To have those not directly involved suggest that I or Dick are somehow simply a conduit for how John Kyte thinks things ought to go is totally inaccurate.

Finally, if people think I'm not telling them the truth when I post in this forum regarding NAR action and policy, the least they could do is make that post in clear language. I'm a big boy and can certainly handle NAR members and other calling me a liar.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President

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Reply to
Mark B. Bundick
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I find your dismissive attitude "generally unhelpful" since you have been given clear guidance of what to do via direct email, rmr posts, BOD proposals and a variety of other contacts including questions at NSL!

You managed to deflect or ignore all of it so far and CONTINUE to be on the side of either toleration or outright advocacy of LEGISLATIVE APCP weight limits.

You manage to be on the side of toleration, AND outright advocacy of ATF permits for propellants and propellant actuated devices despite their CLEAR EXEMPTION per 27 CFR 55.141-a-8.

Let's start there the rest is above your head and beyond your comprehension level.

Jerry

Prove us wrong. Change NAR policy TODAY (in the next 10 minutes) to:

  1. Eliminate any requirement for ATF permits for APCP manufacturers
  2. Eliminate any requirement for vendors to ask dealers or consumers for ATF permits for any motor or propellant sales
  3. Eliminate the 62.5g per motor limit and state the ONLY model rocket mass limits are 1500g and 125g.

Start there. Remember you can change *NAR* policy UNILATERALLY and LATER align other codes and policies to your NEW ATTITUDE, based clearly on existing federal LAW.

Show me.

Stop being a moron.

TODAY!

Jerry

NAR 24333 Senior insured

cc: The Prez

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Keep up the good work, Mark. Don't let one vocalizer with a woody get you down.

Steve Bloom NAR 71920

Reply to
default

Woody Miller some pretty mean stuff directed at Bunny:

Woody,

Can't you challenge Bunny tactfully? You're attacks remind me of the crap which spews forth from the two resident village idiots here. Surely you don't want to join their esteemed ranks of 0 credibility.

Can you honestly say, if you were in Bunny's shoes right now, that you would be doing a better job? That you would somehow be able to sway the opinions in DC to see the light?

Instead of sitting here badmouthing Bunny for making the most of a bad situation, for operating in a professional manner, for trying to deal with a bunch of DC DH's, why don't you throw your hat in the ring, get elected to the BOT, and show us how everything would be just hunky dory if you were in charge?

Doug

Reply to
Doug Sams

But don't ignore him either! He has a point that should be integrated into NAR policy. Do that.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

In 12 days everyone gets a chance to tell Bunny and the board what they think. If you think that we should dump the bill, fire the lawyer, drop permits, or stay the course we are on you will have a chance to voice your option in 12 days. Go to the Town Meeting at NARAM and give them your option. Jerry, since you are a member you con go and should be there.

Reply to
Roger Jolly

I already submitted proposals. How about you?

I did at NSL and it was a total waste of time. In fact my son stated the NAR president was intentionally trying to consuse members with his answers (obfuscation). I agree.

I have always taken the path of least resistence and proper procedure first. Then when they do the wrong thing and get punished it will be fully justified.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

You were at NSL ??

Chris Taylor

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Reply to
Chris Taylor Jr

What he said!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Remember in the old days, where each village only had one?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Oops! Narcon. Chris Taylor corrected *ME*.

Where are those suicide pills?

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

I will be there. This is at the top of my list of matters to bring up at the NARAM association meeting. Is there anything else I should address?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

With our luck you'll buy a bottle of Cyanide pills, and they'll be Tylenol :-)

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

my request for the agenda item shown below was acknowledged and accepted. Please follow up on it at the Association meeting.

thanks, Bob

- iz

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Call for Agenda Items, NAR Board Meeting Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 19:31:16 -0500 From: "Mark B. Bundick" To: snipped-for-privacy@acceptable-gains.com

At 11:17 AM 6/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Added to the agenda.

MBB

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Call for Agenda Items, NAR Board Meeting Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:17:16 -0400 (GMT) From: Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed Reply-To: snipped-for-privacy@acceptable-gains.com To: Mark Bundick CC: John Wickman

I respectfully submit the following item for inclusion on the NAR Board meeting agenda.

"Defer to John Wickman on all matters pertaining to legislative relief"

This is a serious request, as I have observed the absence of alignment exhibited by John Kyte and the national leaderships to be detrimental, and quite possibly fatal, to this effort.

- iz

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Reply to
izzy

There needs to be a single voice for rocketry and only Wickman is thinking in terms of all styles of rockets: MR, HPR, Am.

NAR is MR centric and TRA id HPR centric and bot have a track record of trading Am rights for MR/HPR appeasement. Notably appeasement that never accomplishes the goal or lasts very long.

TRA and NAR are not run by sophisticated or long run thinkers.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

At this point, I'd defer to Enzi over Wickman.

This is flat out incorrect. If NAR was MR centric, they wouldn't be concerned at all with the lawsuit, the BATF NPRM, or SB724. None of them have any impact on traditional model rockets.

As opposed to US Rockets...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

I have stated this before, and I will again

Sen. Enzi is, by virtue of his Office, constrained in what he may "officially" endorse. Communications to TRA/NAR/Kyte constitute "official" endorsements or directions.

John Wickman has Sen. Enzi's complete confidence and vice versa. John and Sen. Enzi brainstorm, and John communicates the actions required. Only when appropriate to Sen. Enzi's Office are those actions also communicated to TRA/NAR/Kyte

You either believe this or you don't

Given John W.'s longstanding relationship with Sen. Enzi, the Senators admitted background in EX, and the fact that John W. worked with Sen. Enzi to introduce S.724 (which John has publically stated that Sen. Enzi entrusted John W. with actually drafting), I would believe it.

- iz

Reply to
izzy

WWSD!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Why should I believe these claims from an anonymous source? Who *are* you? Is "IZ" your first name, or last name? What city and state do you live in?

I think that if Mr. Wickman cared for the suport of those of us who read rec.models.rockets that he would post his communications here himself, instead of throught a (self?) appointed anonymous mouthpiece.

I respect Mark Bundick for having the guts to speak for himself.

Mr. Wickman was lucky to have NAR & TRA involved so that he could blame them for his failures. Had they not gotten involved, he could have only blamed them for not being involved (damned if you do, damned if you don't).

Glen Overby, KC0IYT

Reply to
Glen Overby

I have already posted this and it should be in the FAQ:

Mr Wickman is far wiser than all of the Senator's, Representatives, and professional lobbyists combined. Probably more than all of the readers on R.M.R. too. That they are too stupid to realize this is the cause of our current dilemma. If we get full legislative relief it will be 100% due to Wickman's personal involvement. If we get less than full relief it will be

100% due to "outside" > izzy wrote:
Reply to
Alex Mericas

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