ROL NEWS--AeroTech Endorses Consumer Adjustment of RMS Delays

BA DA BOOOM!

Ok jerry I'll bite....please elaborate on the manufacturing cons.. from my POV the biggest manufacturing con would be, is that they have a known system in place to mass produce their motors as is..ie combined propulsion and delay train/ejection charge...

I understand how that simplifies the manufactruring proces for making BP motors, as you just run the motors back through the same machinery to put in the delay train/ejection charge.. Does anybody know if these components are premade or are placed into the paper motor casing and allowed to "cure'...

The only was for this to work would be have a different machine somewhat like the motor making machine and instead of making combined motors you now make motors on machine 1 and delay trains/ejection charge modules on machine

2...

But what if you could make a batch of motors..say A3-0 in 13mm and then after you have made the batch motors, instead of loading the machine with

13mm casings you now load with paper casings that fit inside the inner diametr of the 13mm tube and run thriough a batch of delay/ejection charge modules.... one run to make say a 6sec delay..then you offer a tool to change that max 6 sec down to 2 if need be...

I think Estes just doesn't want to sell partial BP motor kits to 14 years old....thats why they stay with their tried and true methodology.....

I know this could be done, but until Estes the market leader decides to change there will be nochange...

shockie B)

In my opinion you grossly misuse the information you receive. You improperly contact authorities, you threaten to "out" fellow rocketeers for your perception (often wrong or skewed) of violatios (no I am not even talking about me!).

You are a hazard to the industry at large.

Jerry

disengage

jerry:

liar liar pants on fire.

I have never contacted any authorities, properly or improperly , except for my own State Fire Marshall,concerning rocketry here in the State of KY....As far as I am aware, rocketry is still as legal and openly pursued here as it ever has.....

well dude if you aren't the poster child for bad behavior in our hobby then I don't know who is... and yeah I seriously considered "outing" you (are you gay too jerry?) to the California State Fire Marshall about your DOT transgressions, but since the NAR could care less, I decided I cared even less.... I am not aware of any other public violations by anybody else in the hobby..... and yes there are some 'behind the scene" machinations that trouble me, but again my opinion is just like an ahole jerry, everybody has one....and I am not the police....if the NAR/TRA brand of "self-regulation" is not working, its not my job nor responsibility to do their job for them.....IF self-regulation actually worked, you would have been run out of the hobby many moons ago......

As usual you are talking poop with no basis in fact.....

the fact that you are trying to smear me here, and not even bothering to answer my questions, just shows you for what you are: a poor pathetic,loser.....and probably a government agent provocateur

shockie B)

you calling me a hazard to the industry is like calling the kettle black..look in the mirror jerry, the only hazard I see to rocketry is YOU...

shockie B)

Agreed.

I've seen CD as low as 0.2 for simple 3fnc HPR models. Like my L2 cert flight.

Here I disagree. Any tipoff or weathercocking will result in a lower than expected flight, needing a shorter delay for ejection at apogee. So I'd rather have a delay that's 2 seconds short than one that's 2 seconds long.

But once again, that assumes that you know what the actual delay in use tested out to. With TMT certified motors, you don't have that information. For all we know, a -10 could be an -8 or a -12. Or maybe even a -5 or a -20!

Question for TMT: Why are actual delay test results such a big secret that you can't publish them? THey've been kept from the users for 11 years now.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

This is basicly what AVI did with their "gold series" motors in the mid

1970s. 18mm D6.1 had a 13mm delay insert with the delay and ejection. THe 24mm E11.8 had a 18mm insert. And the 33mm E and F motors used 24mm inserts. There were even 9mm motors with smaller inserts for 1/4A-1/2a sizes. THey were assembled rather the same way as tandem motors of the period, except it was done by the manufacturer. THey never sold the pieces so you could mix and match.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Bob: and of course all the way back to the early 70's was Semroc's DECAP.....

It just seems to me that if all BP motors were made as -0 and you had a DECAP that could be altered from 1-10 sec....

shockie B)

Bob Kaplow wrote:

machine with

If USR were certified, it would submit a "decap" for Estes D12-0 and C6-0 until the moment of receipt of a cease notice by Estes.

I figure tens of thousands of units could be produced by then.

Jerry

Agreed.

Consider it an expert opinion.

I have no obligation whatsoever to answer your questions.

In your "expert" opinion... rocket motors are "model aircraft parts"....

'nuff said..

shockie B)

Boo Hoo.

jerry:

liar liar pants on fire.

I have never contacted any authorities, properly or improperly , except for my own State Fire Marshall,concerning rocketry here in the State of KY....As far as I am aware, rocketry is still as legal and openly pursued here as it ever has.....

well dude if you aren't the poster child for bad behavior in our hobby then I don't know who is... and yeah I seriously considered "outing" you (are you gay too jerry?) to the California State Fire Marshall about your DOT transgressions, but since the NAR could care less, I decided I cared even less.... I am not aware of any other public violations by anybody else in the hobby..... and yes there are some 'behind the scene" machinations that trouble me, but again my opinion is just like an ahole jerry, everybody has one....and I am not the police....if the NAR/TRA brand of "self-regulation" is not working, its not my job nor responsibility to do their job for them.....IF self-regulation actually worked, you would have been run out of the hobby many moons ago......

As usual you are talking poop with no basis in fact.....

the fact that you are trying to smear me here, and not even bothering to answer my questions, just shows you for what you are: a poor pathetic,loser.....and probably a government agent provocateur

shockie B)

Semroc had such a system in the the '60s with separate delay/ejection trains. Carl recently commented on this in the OldRockets yahoo group. Apparently they had a lot of glue failures that made the system unworkable.

Roy

roy: yes thats where I first heard of of the Semroc DECAP.. seeems they failed as they were gluing 18mm to 18mm ..butt joined....Carl told me they had a new design with a 13mm tube that would fit in an 18mm ..or an 18mm that would fit in a 24mm ...that would have worked much better and I do beleive thats the route AVI took with their design...

shockie B)

Like Jerry said, big manufacturing con. The reason single use BP motors from Estes and Quest are so inexpensive is because the machine used to ram stuff into the case (the famous Mabel) is simple and rugged. Clay for the nozzle, BP, delay composition is all pounded in. A little loose BP for ejection and another clay cap (used to be just paper) and in only a few seconds another motor drops into the bin ready for packaging.

Personally, for MR use I'm OK with the stuff Estes and Quest sells because I don't expect super-accurate high performance levels when I buy the motors from Wally World.

I think you are really advocating an RMS system in the 13-18mm size range. That might be problematic from a design standpoint, trying to keep the weight of the components down to avoid weight and CG issues in a MR, but still be strong enough to withstand composite propellant pressures and years of assemblying, flying, disassembling and cleaning.

John

There IS an RMS system in the 18mm size range -- but there's a somewhat limited range of reloads available.

David Erbas-White