ROL NEWS--AeroTech Endorses Consumer Adjustment of RMS Delays

GOOD question! Most of the 18/20 24/40 and 29/40-120 reloads are contest certified. This could have some "interesting" implications.
And the whole announcement leaves one question unanswered: Will Aerotech honor warranty claims on motors where the delay has been modified? If I reduce a -10 to a -6 and it ends up a -2, will they stand behind their instructions?
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
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Holy cow! looks like everybody that flies reloadables is in big trouble...
We're not allowed to grease O-rings, remove excess flashing from nozzle throats, chamfer the inner edges of the delay insulator, bevel liners to make them fit properly or to cut the red cap to make a vent hole...
Where do I go to turn myself in?
- Robert Galejs
Reply to
Robert Galejs
4.5.4 seems to be an out for no alterations.....as long as the manufacturer updates their instructions to allow for motor modding....
shockie B)
this is one reason why I hate the NFPA codes: the NAR/TRA make these regs, but they will not "interpret" these nfpa codes for its members as to what they mean..at least they won't interpret them for me...
So by default the State Fire Marshall in each state gets to determine what they mean, if that states Fire Marshall is even aware the NFPA codes exist in the first place, and with no prior experience in interpretation of the rocketry NFPA codes, he may not even interpret them correctly as they were meant to be... or you may just wake the proverbial sleeping giant of regulatory overkill.....
Oh what a wicked web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive....
Thats why I insist the self-regulation is illusionery.... If we wish not to self-regulate ourseleves in this hobby, or if we desire to "pick and choose" how we will regulate ourselves, then self-regulation doesn't really exist.. its becomes the current system of "wink and nod"...
what you end up with is people who self-regulate themselves to the Max and you also have those who take a more liberal POV on the regs and barely regulate themselves...
shockie B)
Reply to
shockwaveriderz
It doesn't seem to be an open question, quoting from the instructions:
"NOTE: Please be aware that AeroTechs RMS (TM) reload kit warranty with regard to pyrotechnic time delays only covers failure of the delay to ignite or to remain lit (i.e., partially remaining unburned delay element). It does not cover any failure of recovery system deployment not the result of delay element extinguishment, and any other failures resulting from reload kits not used in accordance with instructions..."
In essence the warranty only really guarantees that the delay element will light, and that it will stay lit once ignited. The only 'guarantee' that the delay time is right are the certification testing that 'proves' the time -- but there is no warranty as to the time of the delay.
David Erbas-White
Reply to
David Erbas-White
In article snipped-for-privacy@eisner.encompasserve.org, Bob Kaplow at kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD wrote on 4/15/05 11:48 AM:
Read the instructions and warranty statement. We have the same policy as CTI.
Someone also asked me which way to orient the drilled end of the delay (after the announcement was posted).
"It's in there."
Gary/RCS
Reply to
Gary C. Rosenfield
David,
NAR may operate a bit different than you imagine. While Mark clearly has the leadership position of NAR, the execution of the operational tasks required to operate the organization are delegated back to the other NAR Trustees. For instance, I'm the Trustee liaison to the Sport Services committee, the L3CC committee, and the newest member of NAR S&T team. Other NAR Trustees have responsibilities to educational outreach, organizing national events, HQ operations, S&T, NFPA, and of course the legal and legislative efforts. A significant portion of the NAR Trustee meetings that Mark chairs are reports by the Trustees as to the progress and activities in their assigned areas. The undertaking of new initiatives within NAR are either approved by a vote of the Trustees or at the direction of a single Trustee, depending on the size and scope of the activity. For instance, the Jr. High Power Participation program was reviewed and approved by a vote of the Trustees, while the new HPR Competition program that will be rolled out shortly was worked out at the Sport Services committee level.
How the announcement Aerotech delay modification procedure will be handled is in the hands of Jack Kane, who has oversight of NAR S&T as his Trustee assignment. Jack has the option of deciding the NAR response within the NAR S&T committee or elevating it to the NAR Trustees for discussion. At this point in time, I don't know what his decision will be.
Best Regards,
John Lyngdal
Reply to
Johnly
That is the debate. Shultz posted what he felt was a literal interpretation otherwise.
As we know, other parts of the code internally conflict.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
I have read their language on this (which is itself too restrictive) and modifying the delay according to instructions would not void the otherwise hard to experience warranty.
The delay basicly has to extinguish itself :)
As for if this applies to contest as well, of course. The only differentiating factor for contest cert is availability and the delay mod document is a download. I do not think they will run out of them.
It does raise one issue. What if you want a longer delay? A common contest problem. Will AT do yet another document that states what stock RDK's can be used to extend the delay? It would also have use in multi-clusters where you have say 2 E55's and a 2 E6's.
Jerry
> If I > reduce a -10 to a -6 and it ends up a -2, will they stand behind their > instructions? > > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! > When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag.
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
using the word "hate" is way too strong a word..... I should have said: this is one reason why the nfpa codes concern me....
to me self-regulation means self-policing which ends up being whatever the mind of the beholder may want it to be.... thats why we have really liberal self interpretations and really conservative self interpretations.. nobody is wrong if everybody is right....
sounds like no regulation to me....
shockie B)
Reply to
shockwaveriderz
Example?
Maybe I'll have TRA "renew" my NAR certs too :)
> > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! > When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag.
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Note this.
Since NAR and TRA author the NFPA codes, there is no practical reason why they could select a strategy of exemption not regulation as a code style.
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
The big fine and the judgements would get paid if that ever happens. Hence why I think it won't despite NFPA-1125 saying they MUST.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
The CTI motors already have adjustable delays.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
I did. It's vague, and could be interpreted that you don't warranty delay accuracy at all on reloads, modified or not.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
If you want an intermediate delay, there seems to be no consequence to making a "slight adjustment error".
Jerry
> > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! > I'm not afraid of terrorists. I am terrorized by airport security. _george
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Thanks john for clarifying this.
I've not seen anything "official" on the TRA list, so it does appear that the impact of the RCS announcement is in a bit of limbo right now. TMT is also probably trying to figure it out, as they applied strict rules to CTI when they introduced adjustable delays. (during Sue's term).
We could always get in the "kosdon" situation, where NAR and TRA have different views! (what a mess that was!)
(last I heard, a NAR certified Kodson could be flown at a NAR launch but only by a NAR member, but a TRA member can't fly a Koson at any sanctioned launch (unless it's EX and Frank is part of the team!))
Reply to
AZ Woody

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