Axis Planes in Post War Air Races??

you lost me there. what is booting? and i just couldn't spell manoverable, so i used agile. could you really tight turn one around a pylon? i just can't imagine a 262 turning with, never mind inside, a mustang.

yeah, a 335. think of the paint possibilities on those big bastards. now there's a fantasy to build. well, someone has to do it. i'll sacrifice a lindberg kit to our fantasy fleet.

As in literally stomping on a rudder pedal with your boot - also referred to as a "boot-full o' rudder".

The "top rudder" is the one on the up-side of the bank, adverse to the turn. You actually turn an aircraft with the lift vector - roll rate determines how fast you can point the lift vector in the direction you want to go, and a combination of G available and airspeed determine rate and/or radius of turn.

Applying "a boot-full of top rudder" keeps your nose out of the dirt but also creates adverse yaw - some aircraft tolerate that better than others. In a swept wing jet with free fall slats like an A-4 or an F-86 (or Me-262...) you can get an asymmetric slat deployment that way and snap roll if you aren't careful - such killed a guy here in an QF-86 a number of years back.

ah, ok, dawn breaks over marblehead with an audible crack. will that also cause you to "skid" across the air? and does that have a name?

Yes - but a skid is really the opposite of what I've just described. A skid is turning without banking by using rudder only. Both are examples of uncoordinated turns. Roll and pull to turn hard, smoothly roll with coordinated rudder to turn smooth, stomp rudder only and apply opposite aileron to skid, more alieron to slip.

All of which are of use in combat because using coordniated turns makes you predictable - particularly in close where your persuer may be watching your flying surfaces. Biggest diff in principle between flying in combat and flying in an airshow, IMO.

Didn't Howard Hughes try to enter an Me262 at Reno and was barred? I know I heard this anecdotally, but don't recall reading it anywhere.

Somebody...look it up!

--Stephen

ok, makes sense.

Maybe if you check out this site:

Could you enter a Lightning?

Or would it run out of fuel?

I think someone has - a white one, with red wingtips?..

Did it win or run out of fuel?

But then despite enormous amounts of power is it actually manouverable enough, being that it was designed as a rapid response interceptor rather than fighter.

I don't see why it would run out of fuel...if it had plenty of reserves of power it would just run at part throttle and keep up until a mad dash at the end.

Lightnings have been raced at Reno for many years.

The most identifiable was Lefty Gardner's Race 13, White "Lightning". I lost a good amount of weight polishing her a few times over the years, sometimes accompanied by my oldest son. She crashed a couple of years back and has been in rebuild for some time now. Last I heard she was being sent to the UK.

Gardner's grudge match compettion was Gary Levitz and his P-38. She went in a few years ago, crashing into the back yard of a home.

No P-38s on the course now, probably never again.

Tom

Tom - they're talking about an English Electric Lightning. Twin Jet Supersonic Fighter. Not a P-38.

And I really don't know if it could corner tight enough to stay on the course.

-Kevin in Indy

Not sure of Avon part throttle fuel consumption

Not the Isopon filler!!

The supersonic interceptor of which a few are privately owned!!!

TBH I don't know which ones would do the job best - possibly a Hawk, or a Hunter, maybe a Harrier.

They should have let the 262 enter, then maybe a few ex military jets could have been involved, problem being most were designed as interceptors (quick in straight lines ect) rather than dog fighters, the Hunter has a lot of wing area, the Hawk advanced trainer - well the Red Arrows make good use of it, and the Harrier despite not pulling huge G forces can turn quickly according to its pilots.

Doh! Sorry about that.

The Thunderbirds do an interesting manouver at Reno when they are there. Their solo F-16 approaches the course while the announcer states that we're going to see how the F-16 would do on the course. Then he states that the F-16 will do the much smaller and tighter biplane/IFM course. The pilot streaks accross the start line puts the nose up and essentially sits on his tal while quickly orbiting the small course. It's over in a few seconds and the crowd love t.

Tom

Think of it in terms of range and endurance...most fighter types are spec'd about the same - they carry what they need - so over a closed course I'd expect them to be pretty evenly matched for a given number of laps to the finish as far as fuel goes.