Rocketry in Australia

Hi,
I am the web master for the Perth Advanced Rocket Club.
Rocketry is on the verge of extinction in Australia. Most web sites
are no longer being maintained and people starting with the hobby are left homeless.
PARC offers Aussies a rocketry home - not just for Western Australia, but for everyone. We have a forum, a page where you can leave contact info so you can get in touch with other flyers in your state plus a good range of general info.
We would like to act as a hub and bring everyone together. So if you are an Aussie and fly rockets or are thinking about it, then drop by the PARC site.
http://waro.iinet.net.au/parc /
See you there!
Paul Collier
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Great stuff Paul!
Good to see another Aussie flying the flag......... I'm in NSW and I'll put my details down on your site soon.
Do you know if NSWRA have worked out a deal with the Gov. for a NSW Launch site??? Last I heard they had a few hurdles to clear.......
A few TRA Australia members have been travelling to Serpentine Vic. and launching which I was planning on doing for my cert flights.......Who knows...If I ever get over to WA again I'd love to go to one of your launches.. :-)
Cheers, Clint

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On Mon, 23 May 2005 07:34:59 +1000, "CJC"
G'day Clint,

Great! With luck we can get other aussies talking to each other and help increase the publics awareness of the hobby. I get a few emails from time to time from people asking if there is a club in their state, but most (all?) of the sites I visit are years out of date with no new info - so I email them and get no reply. Hence this post.

NSWRA is one of thoes sites I was refering to...there is no info on their site telling you what's happening, so I asumed the club was dead. Surely it doesn't take 5 years to find a new launch site?
I will try contacting them. If I could get a page up with club listings that would be great, but only if the club has an active website. The SA club doesnt even have any contact info!

Again, I will try and get in contact with TRA, but their web site is basicly just a link to the usa...I dunno...people make web sites without understanding what people are looking for.

We would love to see you there..except our club as a grand total of about 8 members, and I live 500kms away from the launch site (which is why I have my own) :-)
The lack of motors and support for mid/high power rocketry from hobby shops is causing a lot of problems I think. And Dawn trading have a knife to our throats. Apparently they are reluctant to place another order with Aerotech because the motors are slow movers.
Paul.
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These are some brief details of some enquiries I've made - ............ ............ I got no response from the NSWRA Site. Paul Kelly (Aust Hybrid Guru) on the ARocket list kindly provided me a contact to the NSWRA Secretary, Phillip Gilchrist.
In that reply he basically said that a few TRA Aust. guys (I'm now an official TRA Cert Level 0....heh heh heh :-) have been going to Vic. There may be a branch forming in NSW (PRETTY PLEASE) but have probs with political crap. ............ ............ An enquiry to David Boyd -
He said that TRA Aust. has been very quiet of late. They had an Annual Meeting not long ago. The Tripoli President who was the net contact is standing aside due to work load etc...and they were electing new committee members. ............ ............ An enquiry to TRA's David Wilkins -
Hard to get a response but the one I did get was reasonably helpful. Could not contact him directly so I went to TRA HQ USA. They passed on the message.
He offered to be one of my TAP members when I go L3....(Thanks David) and gave a few more details about the Serpentine site. 25000ft + ceiling etc...etc...
Haven't received a response in regard to my questions about getting H-M motors and igniters etc.... That's currently my biggest prob.....It's hard to find out about this stuff here? Should I risk ordering that gear over the net....if I could get a vendor to sell it that is! Me thinks not!
I have thought about manufacturing my own private use motors over the last 10+ yrs. Good old dad, now long retired, was an aircraft engineer in the RAAF and has his own fully equipped workshop up in QLD.
I think all the regs. pretty much count out everything but hybrids..... Paperwork sucks!
I think on the TRA Aust web site I read somewhere that they have a motor vendor on site? I doubt they'd carry around any of the bigger motors? I don't know? Special order?
There's only 3 or 4 hobby shops around here. All but 1 has ESTES / QUEST gear. And they only have Aerotech supplies most prob from DAWN and "SFA" of them!!!
I was suppose to be finished my L1 bird and do a cert flight at the June launch but I haven't received all the parts and won't be finished.......I buy thru the net aswell.
Got David's Mobile Ph# so I'll give him a call when I'm finished and ready to go.... ........... ........... 8 members & you're 500km away.........heh heh heh... :-) I'm lucky enough to own a small 32 acre property whilst still being only 1hr at the most from Syd. and about 30mins. from Newcastle.
Still........I can only fire off Model Rockets and anything that goes higher than 1000ft has a 99% chance of being lost. There's a few nasty trees around. :-)
Oh...and I see that you want a PML Ultimate Endeavour? Nice hey.......looking at one right now! :-) Poor thing.....it's out under the carport with no motors to put in it and no where to fly it!

wrote:

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Hmmm. TRA and political crap.
I have a suggestion. Form a group not affiliated with TRA at all and deal ONLY with local issues. You are going to have enough difficulty with motor supply issues alone.

Which helps ONE guy and only when he has already arrived rocketry wise. What is needed is hundreds of NEW users.

Life is always easier without TRA and WITH an expanding group.
TRA is contracting.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Lucky I know you have a very bias opinion towards anything TRA :-) It was to do with Workcover, Not enough insurance & a launch site.

I joined TRA & NAR only recently because I thought it would be the easiest & most legal? way to attain larger motors and also learn from alot of experienced people! I've been fling MR for 18yrs and gave up last time because I didn't know we could cert down here And dang it......I want big motors! Including yours Jerry!!! :-) Yeah, you read correctly! Aust. does need all the help we can get!

I'm sure David would help anyone, not just me Jerry..... If I can get my L3 etc... maybe I can help other Aussies that want to do the same thing Or that can't find any info on doing so!
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I was trained by them.

Did it prove true?

Because no National or state law or regulation in Australia requires it. It is yet another example of TRA adding restrictions where they do not previously exist.
I thought you said you needed MORE flying buddies, not less?

I appreciate the sentiment. Should it become a fact I look forward to seeing you fly alternate motors.

Almost anyone . . .

But "L3" is a USA construct and does not apply to AUS at all.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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I'll let you know over the next 6mnths :-)

Well maybe I should have contacted you first Jerry?
So how do I get hold of mega motors (Solid), igniters & other pyro devices, keep them at my place and fly to obscene altitudes with a video packed rocket etc. etc...?
And do all this without realy knowing how to go about it? And knowing nothing of importation laws etc? And doing this in a legal manor?
The last thing I need is a couple of stun grenades being lobbed thru the windows. Followed up by 3 or 4 German Shepards, followed by 12 guys in riot gear with autos pointed at my head.
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Rather than answer directly since the answer is not installed yet, I say "watch".

I agree that is a major issue.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

devices,
So you have no answer yet you've been talking as if you had all the answers.

Watch what??
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I am tired of you Ray.
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

That's not an answer to the question, just a cop out.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

pyro
etc...?
yet...
Boohoo. Try giving a straight answer to simple questions for a change.
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wrote:

Spot on. Australia should find it's own way instead of hanging of America's skirts all the time.
In WA, the law is: You need to have your club membership endorsed to fly on H & I impulse motors - no mention of how the club should do that. PARC follows the NAR guidlines because they make sence and it is wise for a rocketeer to display a certain amount of knowledge before stepping up to bigger motors, but we are not required by law to follow any US codes - only thoes set out by the local club.

Get them in the hobby stores here and we'll fly 'em.

It's all about state laws over here. As far as I can tell, federal laws don't realy touch rocketry - it's up to the state and more precisley, the body that governs pyrotechnics, which is usually the mining and resources arm of the state gov. Also, CASA have a big say (obviously).
It's -SA=- that limits liftoff weight and total impulse. In WA, CASA limit us to 1.5kg liftoff weight and 320Nsec thrust. And it goes without saying that CASA limit the launch altitude. Which for the most part is stupid, because we have so much unused airspace it just isn't funny. They pulled a face when I asked for 3500ft and we get like, 1 aircraft a month in the area if we are lucky.
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snipped-for-privacy@mail.iinet.net.au (Impakt) wrote:

You mean, gag, they have arbirtary rules in OZ too?
:)
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

jerry thinks any rule he doesn't like, is arbitrary.
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No we can and do launch larger and heavier, but it requires an approved launch site under CASA regulations..
TRA Australia's location is and has been defined as a launch site under those regulations since they were introduced, and we have multi-year waivers issued to us, so Impact if your having difficulties with CASA its surprising maybe its how you are approaching them?
We have an excellant relationship, with CASA and Air Services and its one earned from a calm professional approach.
Regards
David Wilkins Tripoli Australia - TRA # 6593 L3 TAP/TRA IT Chair
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On 25 May 2005 06:34:37 -0700, "David Wilkins"

You may note that I said WA. And that is in print from CASA. Yes they will come to the party if you need more alt, but as a general rule, they don't like us flying higher than we have to (or they think we should). CASA are overly protective of airspace and since we have so much of it and nothing using it, I don't understand CASA's reluctance about granting the use of it. Just to make it clear - they will do it, but they DONT LIKE IT. Not just rockets, but anything other than conventional aircraft. (ask anyone who flies microlights).

Sounds like you are implying something David, though I'm sure you're not?
My relationship with CASA is just fine. I am not complaining about anything, I just pointed out the facts - CASA limit WA to 1.5kg liftoff weight and 320Nsec thrust. When I initially contacted CASA and asked about the proceedure for getting approval to fly rockets, they asked how high I wanted to fly - I told them 3500ft and they were not overly happy about that and said 'we shall see and make a decision when you send in the application forms'.
I don't believe I said I am having any difficulties. I have our property approved for rocketry activities to 3500ft and as far as I know, I have more launch dates reserved than anyone else in the country. I said CASA pulled a face when I asked for 3500ft - they still granted it. PARC has had approval to 5000ft in the past. Me? 3500ft is fine and the launch site isn't big enough to fly any higher than that. I seldom fly over 2000ft anyway. I would like to fly heavier rockets on higher impulse motors but that's just my wish list.
And just to clear things up, the PARC launch site is not the same as -my- launch site. They are 600kms away from each other and I am not responsible for the activities at PARC...I am just a member and maintain their web site.
Regards
Paul.
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Not implying anything, simply pointing out that we have managed to achieve with CASA and working within the regulations. The CASA regulations are federal and apply equally across the country your posts make it appear otherwise.
Quite often its about airways location, and how to work with the local flying inspector for CASA.
I have written a number of articles for Air Services own newsletter at their request to better inform the controllers as to what are activities encompass.
You just sounded frustrated by the regulations and I was pointing out that in a co-operative approach you can achieve a great deal.
While there is one person flying rockets here its still alive and has the potential to grow.
Regards
David Wilkins Tripoli Australia - TRA #6593 L3 TAP/TRA IT Chair
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On 25 May 2005 15:59:50 -0700, "David Wilkins"

I guess it just depends on the individual you deal with at CASA and the mood they are in.

Good stuff.

Not frustrated, I just think CASA are overly protective of our sparsely used airspace. OK, in the suburbs or near flight paths things are different, but out here in the sticks???

Well thats what I am about..letting people know that this hobby is for real and its a great thing to get involved with (well, it would be if there were any motors in the country). I think you guys are the only ones left with anything bigger than an F.
Regards
Paul.
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