Rocketry in Australia

wrote:


Destruction? The Triploi folks over here are just stagnant. David Boyd told me that most of the members keep in touch via email - that almost makes TRA a closed club - the last time I visited the web site, it was two years out of date and with very little, almost 0 info. It doesnt show up in the search engines when you search for rocket clubs in australia.

I don't know what your gripe with Tripoli is and I've never had any dealings with them myself, but PARC is a free spirit and is not tied in with any other org.

Don't I know it....it's Dawn Trading that has me most worried. They can pull the pin on the hobby for evryone at the drop of a hat.

Have who contact you? Dawn trading? They wont talk to me. Period. Because I'm not a hobby shop, I don't exist.

That's correct. If I had the means, I would start a business that imports rocketry stuff and I would get mid power kits and ground support into every hobby store in the country. I wouldnt care how long it takes to recoup my costs...just so long as I can say 'yep - heres a G64 to pop in my amraam' or 'BT to fix the lawn dart Strong ARM? No probs'.

Who? The hobby stores? Most of them don't even know what a rocket is. This country is so backwards in so many ways.

How? You found a way to clone rocketeers? Is that legal??? :-)
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Impact,
Not stagnant, but using your view then Parc is also in a difficult state.
The incident in NSW with the fool and an ANFO bomb destroyed a good field and put rocketry onhold for sometime, I know folks are working very very hard with our support to re-open the Doonside site and I will do whatever I can to help even if thats being positive in supporting their efforts.
Rocketry is not a big thing here period and given the regulatory limitations most just avoid getting involved beyond the A-E range. The you add the issue of 6 different bodies controlling explosives (and yes rocket motors are considered as such, either by hazard class or by explicit classification) then it just makes is very hard.
Now as far as the website, yeap it has been updated, and was so for the launches last year, why have we been quiet, well our flying season is in our winter due to fire concerns. Its late this year as most locals will know we have had abnormally dry weather and the fire risk was simply to great. We work with our landholders and will never create a situation that we could loose our site because we go "GO" fever.
I have stepped down as Prefect/President of Tripoli Australia as those of you will know I was out on the range last September and October what I didn't know is I had a bad case of Pneumonia and pleurisy, which I am still battling through (its even limiting my ability to fly currently.) It was time to pass the baton and allow me to continue to focus on my own projects, one of which is the re-supply of my propellant stocks.
Right now we have scheduled 4 launches for the remainder of 2005, the first will be this coming Queens Birthday weekend, in fact I am going up to the range to do the annual equipment checkout ahead of the event.
Now if I don't get to reply to emails, I apologize in advance but no sooner do I pop into RMR as magically my accounts get spammed to death.. so if your message gets missed I am sorry re-send it and I will try and catch it and I am always happy to take calls.
At our recent members meeting (and yes we do meet) I was pleased to see even interstate members dialing into the meeting. Yes we have challenges, but they will be resolved by positive attitudes and not sledging..
Best Regards
David Wilkins Past-Prefect/President Tripoli Australia TRA #6593 L3 TAP/TRA IT Chair
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On 25 May 2005 06:42:02 -0700, "David Wilkins"

Maybe your group is going ok, but the rest of the country is not. Take a look around...almost all the clubs have died for one reason or another. I keep getting email from people asking me if there is a club in their state and I am always being asked about the status of NSWRA or the SA Hiflyte club (because the web masters of thoes clubs are too lazy to post a quarterly update). Not one single club other than TRA has responded to any of my emails asking about their status. I am still waiting for info from your very own WA prefect...What are people supposed to think? Anyone trying to get into mid power rocketry might as well not bother...no active clubs, no rockets, ground support or motors in the hobby shops...only 2 or 3 shops in the country that can even sell AP motors...yes, stagnant.

Well thats great news! Why don't they tell people what's going on? Maybe other will chip in and see if they can help? If you are sugesting I am not being -positive- then you are missing the point. I am -trying- to get people together, get people talking and provide the means for the aussie rocketry community to communicate. Like it or not, Tripoli Aust isn't doing that. No one is.

Yes, that puts people off....but when I think about it, I dont think it's all that hard at all - ok, it's not very convienient, but the paperwork is easy, the fees are reasonable - it's just a matter of doing it. State laws confuse things though. And HPR? Well, I don't think I'll even bother.

Now go and have a look at your web site...1 single page with ZERO useful info. Some launch dates and a link to the Triploi site. Next to usless. Thats not just my opinion either - I've had to listen to a few people complain to me about it (like I can do anything about it).
That is why the PARC site is nothing like any other rocket site in Aust. I built it based on the info that -I- was looking for as a newbie. Stuff people want to know. People have given me feedback and the site has been improved by that feedback.
I'm not big noting the PARC site, I am trying to make the point that your web site does not meet the requirements of aussie rocketeers and that comes directly from people who have been there and been in contact with me. For experts flying HPR, it's all basic old stuff but newbies need info and they want you to provide it. They want to ask an aussie questions. How do I get to fly G - I motors? Where can I get this? How do you do that? etc.

Thats the same for everyone. I know that. You know that. But TRA just make the assumption that newbies know that. Put that info on your web site. Newbies = new members = growth.

Speedy recovery David. You use aerotech propellant? Is there still a supply problem from the Sates? Or is it just Dawn Trading causing the problems?

I have 14 dates - mostly because I am playing roulette with the weather. I have a launch this sunday (which is the only day for the next 10 days that they forcast bad weather).

Thats why the email address on my post is a spam account ;-) It is not the one I use for everyday email.

I am not sledging you. I am pointing out some things you should be aware of. Things that have frustraded me and continue to frustrate others. If you dont want to do anything about it - fine - I dont care one way or another. It's your club and I doubt I will ever have anything to do with an American org anyway. And really, TRA has nothing to do with my original post. If you dont think Australian rocketry is in any sort of trouble, then you should look beyond the confines of your club. You might be fine - the rest of the country is not.
I am just trying to get aussies talking to each other.
Cheers
Paul.
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snipped-for-privacy@mail.iinet.net.au (Impakt) wrote:

He got his.
He flies in the USA.
He sources directly from the USA with special import permissions but does not further assist the rocketeers generally in doing so.
He got his.

Great idea.
Put an extra carriage return before each comment you make.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

What is your source for this information? I know you and David aren't exactly drinking buddies.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Say what? David lives and flies in AU, not USA.

Do you?
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Yes I do fly in the USA but havent done so since 2001 due to the current regulations.
I do provide assistance to others who chose to import legally, and there is one other who has done so legally, but the costs in shipping can be prohibitive for hazmat items. (its just hard to get a carrier to get it here) let alone a custom agent that runs at the first mention of Hazmat.
Now will I help those sensible folks, I have done so and have through calm and professional approaches secured change. When the Dept. Of Justice here classified ALL HPR kits (and I am talking about PML, LOC etc not propellant) as weapons I with assistance of others here in AU and the USA achieved a common sense outcome and the flyers shipment of

The Aussies do talk, problem is in AU it was until the founders of TRA Australia started was a divisive state based view of the world.
TRA Australia has always taken a national approach and treated those who chose to follow other organizations with respect as fellow flyers, even when they "borrow" the certification processes verbatim from the TRA website.
Western Australia has especially suffered from severe infighting over the last 5 years and I do hope it eventually settles down and the folks there focus on what matters flying rockets. I will as always remain open to providing assistance if asked. But I have to say WA is a touch like Kalifornia they have to do it their way.
David Wilkins Tripoli Australia - TRA # 6593 L3 TAP/TRA IT Chair
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As I simply said.

Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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On 25 May 2005 15:46:05 -0700, "David Wilkins"

That was before my time and the main cause of the problems has left (and we was a real piece of work - I had the misfortune to meet him once - Rob Masters). The main thing that caused PARC problems was moving from the suburbs to the country so we could fly higher (at least, thats what I've been told). The problem with PARC now is that no one is being pro active about getting people to join the club.
The problem with rocketry in Australia now is Dawn Trading (I dont think I need to repeat that).

Well I cant ask for any assistance for the club because I am just a lowly member. And the only assistance we need is a supply of motors and one or two members to do some things to increase the membership. I would tackel the membership thing if I didn't live so far away.
Still waiting to hear from your WA prefect. I'll give him a week then I will put TRA WA out of my mind.
Regards
Paul.
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snipped-for-privacy@mail.iinet.net.au (Impakt) wrote:

The thing about commercial vendors is they tend to be somewhat practical and rational. If Dawn (or whover else is added) were able to make a profit at lower prices they would. That requires SALES VOLUME to achieve and you openly admit that is lacking.
They are not a charity. They are a business with "difficult market conditions".
My offer stands to arrange more than adequate supplies for "only $250k" (heck, even Australian $).
But even if a pile of motors arrived tomorrow, saleable at USA equivelant prices, you would still have infighting clubs, uncooperative laws, and no visionaries expanding the pie.
Even brief periods of cooperation and vision breeds long periods of growth and advancement. I have seen it first hand.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Oh I forgot to add...
Remember Jerry, Lithium is your friend..
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Sounds like you are qualified to give the same sort of "consultation" as Fred Wallace.
Counterprouctive.
Jerrry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

That happens when you don't pay your consulting fees.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

jerry, I thought you said you did not have ANY motors and you don't make motors.
Have you been lying again?
Does the ATF know that you posses $250,000 worth of rocket motors and have no LEUP or LEMP?

jerry, you want some pie?

Too bad you were not involved.

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No he was just the sad spectator to the event, rocking back and forth back and forth, mumbling they wont let me play..
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Really? You said you're no longer in the motor business. So, where are you going to get those motors?
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Out of my ass?
Heck even YOU could arrange motors for $250 grand, as stupid as you are.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Don't you need a LEMP for that? ;)

Sure, but it would make more sense to get them direct from the manufacturer.
x
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

I for one am pleased to be considered qualified to be in such company.
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wrote:

I'll bet.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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