Higher Prices for US Aircraft Kit Subjects?

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:35:20 -0500, Mad-Modeller


I've had the face-fuzz since I got out of Uncle Sugar's service in 1981. And for some strange reason none of my old military clothing fits anymore - it's shrunk multiple sizes. Must be that poor quality government cloth....
John Hairell ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com)
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Apparently, Dockers and Wrangler are the contractors, 'cuz I've been having the same problem for years. ;-)
WmB
To reply, get the HECK out of there snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net
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Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll try those sites.
Also found Feather River Trains just north of here a few miles. They carry only N Gauge.
Tom
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A price CAN be put on everything, including human life. And some are worth more than others.
KL
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Maybe in your world Kurt, not in mine.
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worth
I can understand that. My world is Earth; Reality. Yours is Utopia; Fantasy.
Do you own any sort of insurance? Do you pay into or withdraw from a pension? Do you pay taxes?
If the answer to any of these is 'yes', you are participating in a system that uses money as the unit of measure to make decisions about far ranging things that otherwise would be incomparable. These systems assign different values to different people, without exception. As much as it may be repulsive to you, you are powerless to do anything about it, and completely unable to remove yourself from the system.
Sorry, KL
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Goonight, Kurt.
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<DIV><BR><BR>A price CAN be put on everything, including human life.&nbsp; And some are worth<BR>more than others.<BR><BR>KL<BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well we know the price for you, and it aint much..................................</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(.02 cents at max)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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And snipped-for-privacy@spamoffukonline.co.uk (Jonathan M) opened up and revealed to the world wrote

Jonathan,
You've hit the nail on the head. I mean just look at the "reality" TV shows like Monster House, Monster Garage, and Overhaulen. On Monster House Steve Watson the hosts mentions several times throughout the show what the bulders are working for tools from Mikta, and Esaub, and the same tools can be seen in use during the build.
And on Monster Garage, and Overhaulen when they're given freebies the company who gave them the freebies name is mentioned. Let's also not forget that along with the FREE PR that giving equipment to the shows they also get a nice tax right off on the donated goods.
Its all about marketing, and the companies that provide tools, and equipment know this and are willing to do so because they know that it get's their product out to thousands IF not millions of viewers here in the US alone.
How much would it cost for say Esaub to actually go out and buy an hours worth of air time? But by donating their tools to Monster House they get an hours worth (more or less) of PR for free.
Digital_Cowboy
- -- Live Long and Prosper . + . + . . .. .. . ______________________. . . . __ . \_______NCC_1701______|) .______.---'--'---.________ || || /-------.__________.-------/ /============/___/ '--' . \==\_____________|(- + . . + . . . . . + + .. . + . . + . . . . . . . + . .
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Have you considered the following:
A) The person watching a home improvement show is likely to already own some tools and likely to purchase more in the future.
B) The person building a model kit likely does not own an aircraft nor are they likely to purchase an aircraft in the future.
C) The person building a model kit likely has not chosen an air carrier based upon the markings on a model aircraft nor are they likely to choose an air carrier on this basis in the future.
D) The person owning a model railroad likely has not purchased petroleum products based upon the markings on a piece or rolling stock nor are they likely to choose a petroleum product on this basis in the future.
Do you guys understand that the marketing of consumer goods is different from the marketing of industrial goods? Haven't you ever wondered why you only see Boeing commercials during the Sunday morning talk shows? Ever wonder why they don't advertise during Saturday Night Live, Monday Night Football, or Days of Our Lives? Did you ever notice that you don't see ads for Pampers in Aviation Week, or BWXT Nuclear Fuel Services in People? Where is the product placement for $350,000 computer controlled machining centers? How come the people who make blast furnaces don't buy ads on the Cartoon Network?
Is it possible - JUST POSSIBLE - that the airplane companies have made the correct decision about marketing when deciding to ignore scale modeling?
Naah. Obviously they are all wrong and it is you marketing geniuses who are correct.
Sure. That's got to be it.
KL
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Kurt Laughlin wrote:

Then explain why Boeing had to spend millions (and I forget just how many millions it was, but it was several) just to come up with the simple combination of the McDonnell "bug" and the Boeing name in the "proper" font after the so-called "merger" as it's new Corporate logo?
And just why did the company bother to do so?..
...or spend all that money on PBS and network ads hawking the ISS?
Hmmmn...I think I want to buy one of those after all, now...
--
- Rufus


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Probably because it was to their benefit in the long run to link the two legacies. This isn't a "New Coke" class decision we're talking about, guys, if that's what you are thinking. It may take awhile to recoup that expense, but do you think they lost any customers over the logo?

You aren't the target audience for those commercials any more than you are the target for a Tampax commercial during a Friends episode you watched. Charity is a combination of a tax deduction and a moral sop to those who feel the need to address "good corporate citizenship". The people who make those $150 million/item decisions watch the Sunday talk shows. Putting the issue in their head before their Monday meeting with the AIA lobbyist is a very profitable exercise. Making a bunch of 45 year-old glue sniffers happy doesn't do shit for them, and ignoring them doesn't do any harm.
You're a military pilot or the like, right? You above anybody on here has actual hands-on experience with product in question. Would you shade - even unconsciously - an evaluation report of a new plane to slight Boeing because you're pissed that they stopped helping Revell? Would you be happy to learn that you're flying a second rate aircraft because the guy making the decision was stoked about his latest model being design with the cooperation of Boeing? My guess is that you hope to hell that the planes you fly are simply the best with procurement decisions unaffected by marketing or even cost impacts. That being so, how can you support Boeing having anything to do with the COMPLETELY unrelated business of model kits, except to satisfy a selfish desire to have a cooler looking or more detailed model to put on your shelf? I would think you'd want an end to ALL "marketing" activities relating to military hardware, INCLUDING cooperation with kit companies.
KL
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Rufus wrote:

There's always the possibility that some TV station in Nebraska already had the same logo.

Could it be they were trying to impress we unwashed what a great company they were?

You'll need a larger display area.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
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I wonder how much the companies pay for copyright on Hot Wheels, Corgis, Hongwells, etc.?
Diecast cars sell far more than plastic kits, so aybe they can afford it.
Tom
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Jonathan M wrote:

Also, Boeing is sitting on about half of the aviation business in this country. One of these days we'll hear that they or Lockheed-Martin have bought out the other. Is there much left after that? The result will be a monopoly. It galls me that a company that never had anything to do with a design is trying to milk it for money. Losing that order to Airbus must have really hurt.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
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Mad-Modeller wrote:

The way around it is simplicity itself...go to NARA, get the unclassified plans of the original, use the EXACT nomenclature on the plans and no company can touch you. Why? Simple again, you got plans from the government of a government owned "item" that is in the public domain. Note-this does not always apply to photos and/or films, some of the collection at NARA is in fact copyrighted to the original photographer and the copyrights on the images are still in force.
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Some of the fallout of these actions have already hit the hobby.
You'll notice that few kit boxes carry the manufacturer's name. For example, you usually won't see "Lockheed Martin F-16" just "F-16" on a kit box. Company logos are also protected by trademark and can be licensed. Since the designation "F-16" is assigned by the U.S. Government (and implicitly paid for by U.S. taxpayer money), it can't be trademarked or copyrighted. However, certain U.S. Govt. logos CAN be copyrighted. For example, you need permission to use and reproduce the CIA's logo.
I believe that model manufacturers had a problem in the '80s with NASCAR kits and the reproduction and use of the massive amount of advertising that appeared on NASCAR racers. I also believe that NASCAR worked out an agreement with car sponsors so that model manufacturers would not have to pay outrageous licensing fees to make the decal sheet.
There is also current talk in the model train community about the Union Pacific Railroad protecting all of it's trademarks even extending (or so i've heard) to the color of their engines and cars. This would force any use of Union Pacific designs, logos, etc. to reqwuire payment of a licensing fee. This move is interpreted as Union Pacific's desparate attempt to generate revenue in any way possible.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. The revenue stream from model kit licensing has to be an insignificant amount for a company like Boeing and if we can't build Boeing airliner models, well that just leaves the market wide open to Airbus. Hey! Maybe Boeing is attempting to run the airliner model industry the same way they seem to be running their airliner sales! ;^)
Martin
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Martin wrote:

I've heard the same about F1 kits, too.
--
- Rufus


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In theory, Disney could sue people who use the military unit badges they designed for the US and other nations during WW2. This includes the swooping tiger they created for the AVG "Flying Tigers" (which was modified by the 23rd FG and subsequently the 14th AF). I saw this on the side of one of Hasbro's Transformers toys (and it was probably used in the G.I. Joe toy line too) and wondered how much in royalties Hasbro should be paying Disney.
Stephen "FPilot" Bierce/IPMS #35922 {Sig Quotes Removed on Request}
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Actually Disney can't sue over the AVG logo, the AVG can as Walt himself gave the logo and all rights to the AVG.
Stephen FPilot Bierce wrote:

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