Master and Commander

They used to give to new Marines, as an example of what one man with initiative can do.

Forester was a war correspondant and spent time on a US Navy destroyer. More out of character was his novel about an American captain in the war of

1812, "The Captain From Connecticut" His books sold thousands and most library systems have most of them available. There's also the old book stores, and Alibris.

The book cited earlier "Death to the French" is more likely found by its original title "Rifleman Dodd" about a 95th Rifles man against a French squad in Spain.

Also there is "The Gun" which was basis for movie "The Pride and the Passion" (quite different plot in the book!).

Last one (also made into film with lots of changes) was "Brown on Resolution" about WW I British sailor vs. German raider. This was made as "Sailor of the King" with Jeffery Hunter.

Cookie Sewell AMPS

The wife and I are going to go see it. Every one says it a good yarn. If I haven't fallen asleep by half time...it will be that. Mike IPMS

'Brown on Resolution' was made under that title in 1935 (AKA 'Born for Glory' and 'Forever England'), starring John Mills as Brown. See here for a bit more info -

This movie shows up on the ABC (Aust BC!) a couple of times a year - I like it.

'Rifleman Dodd' is a fine piece of work - I fished it out of the local library a few months ago and read it twice. RobG (the Aussie one)

Thanks to all for the info/insights on CS Forester works. In particular, the title "Rifleman Dodd" is more palatable here in Canada, for some reason :-)

Cheers

Doc H

Coincidentally, the action takes place on one of the Galapagos Islands; Resolution being the British name of the fictitious island.

Wasn't C.S. Forester the original author of the book about an old junker of a boat taking on a German Lake Victoria gunboat in W.W.I. The book Humphrey Bogart and Catherine hepburn got Oscar's for? "The XXXX Queen" I think was the title. Damn memory isn't what it used to be.

Bill Shuey

"The African Queen"!

Memory is better this morning! Bill Shuey

"The African Queen" The novel sticks closer to reality, with a better, quietly funnier ending. It's a good example of I prefer Forester to O'Brian; he never forgets to include a plot.

I'd say this owes more to audience expectations. We've been conditioned by period costume dramas in which the ship's officers are turned out in immaculately tailored, freshly cleaned and pressed uniforms.

Classic British naval dramas from WWII (The Cruel Sea; In Which We Serve) authentically depict a less formal, slightly scruffy working seagoing rig, reflecting the shipboard conditions of the time. I'd question whether conditions aboard the Royal Navy 'small boys' of an earlier era lent themselves to maintaining the recruiting poster appearance we've seen in other Hollywood period dramas.

Scott G. Welch

I'm not even sure of that--how many sailing warship dramas, not featuring pirates, are there? "Captain Horatio Hornblower" is about it from Hollywood's classic age, and the "Bounty" movies, and those aren't exactly cultural icons.

"The Bounty", the most recent effort, is, and there's a few moments of full dress, during ceremonies. The rest of the time is working dress, and it's more eccentric than "M&C"--very accurately. I think the only thing movie star thing about Crowe is that with all the sun he'd be wearing a hat, probably a straw hat, like the doctor. Drawings and paintings from life show all the officers wearing them in the tropics, except in action.

But this is NOT ww2. In that era or any of twentieth century, I'd agree with you. Since I have not seen the movie yet, some people have pointed out that there are reasons why he looks that way because of the situation.

However, >

One of the better ones -- outside of the later Hornblower ones with Ioan Gryffudd -- is "Damn the Defiant!" with Alec Guiness and Dirk Bogard from 1962. Again concentrates on life aboard a frigate during the Napoleonic wars. Good cast and reasonable plot, borrowed from actual incidents like the 1797 Spithead mutiny and the mutiny onboard HMS Hermione.

Cookie Sewell AMPS

In addition to Hornblower, Billy Budd, Damn the Defiant and Man Without a Country are three more that come to mind. At the rate they cranked them out in the days before these, probably plenty.

My recollection of those, and the earlier 'Mutiny on the Bounty' efforts is that the officers were dressed like one might expect a 'British warship captain' to look. I'd suggest that any of these are a larger part of our collective consciousness than any other sources of what we'd expect.

I'm not an authority on Royal Navy officer uniforms of the Napoleonic era, or even what level of standardization existed for naval uniforms then. But O'Brian has a reputation for being an authority on the era. If he had any input into the film, I'd suggest that it's as authentic as what 'we'd expect.'

Scott G. Welch

Don, thanks for the insights into naval culture. But I believe there are relevant similarities, both social and environmental, between the two eras we're talking about here, more than one might at a cursory glance expect.

If you're skeptical about this, try washing a wool garment in a bucket of cold sea water and pressing it under your mattress sometime.This presumes that you're the captain, and actually bother to have someone wash your blouse from time to time. In any case, your rig ain't gonna look like it just came from the tailor shop, or from Western Costume.

In suggesting the WWII visual examples, what I meant was, if it was difficult to look sharp under those conditions, it probably wasn't any easier or more desirable to do it in the days of 'wooden ships and iron men,' availability and cost of uniform articles, shipboard habitabilty and standards of personal hygiene being what they probably were in the Napoleonic days. (Know why RN midshipmen wore those three brass buttons on their sleeve?)

These conditions are described faithfully in O'Brian's exhaustively researched books. Any one who's read 'Master and Commander' knows natty attire or being gentlemanly aren't the sources of Aubrey's leadership or organizational influence.

Besides, it's questionable whether the social structure of any 20th century navy, especially the Royal Navy, differed substantially from that of the age of sail. The book 'At War at Sea' illustrates this, how a WWII RN sailor would have felt right at home slinging his hammock in the crew's quarters of HMS Victory. And, even post-Zumwalt US Navy, c.1970's, the caste system was still pretty rigid.

Regards,

Scott G. Welch

which is the one with the guy being "flogged through the fleet" and gets flogged even after he's dead? i think it's charles laughton as a captain starring.

In article , OSWELCH writes

Actually, some WW2 sailors did sling their hammocks in a ship that was at Trafalgar (albeit on the wrong side): a 74 gun third rate (HMS Implacable?), was still being used as an accommodation ship in Portsmouth. She was captured in 1805 but not scuttled until c.1948, after the French had the effrontery to ask if we'd quite finished with her, could they please have her back?

Of course the frigate Tricomalee (built c.1814, in India) was still being used as a training ship back in the 1970s (as "Foudroyant") but is now fully restored and docked over in the north-east (West Hartlepool?).

Regards,

FWIW, if you like nautical fiction stories, go to

and have a ball. The Project Gutenberg link gets you to loads of free downloadable "LEGAL" stories too.

That is an episode that the Royal Navy should have been downright ashamed of! There are a couple of pictures of her in the first edition of C.Nepean Longridge's book "The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships". Even though she was damaged in the bombing of portsmouth in 1941, she could have been restored. She was a real piece of history.

Bill Shuey