[OT] Double standards?

legionaires are not cowards. read some books on their history.

The Boss blurted:

Heretic! Buster Crabbe (Aka Capt Gallant) and Fuzzy, his loyal sidekick/permanent Corporal, always won their skirmishs with the evildoers! I will grant you that the Legion didn't do so well in Mexico, Africa, Southeast Asia or against DeGaule.

Rick MFE

Here's an excerpt from an e-mail one of my friends son sent him the other day; he's a Marine serving in combat in Iraq. The entire e-mail deserves to be seen but it's much too long. In fact, I suspect some will bitch about the length of even this excerpt. I'd suggest taking a couple minutes to read it if you want to know the kind of Marines and soldiers we have over there. It also gives some insight into the enemy we're fighting there.

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There is an image burned into my brain that I hope I never forget. We came up behind 3/5 one day as the lead squads were working down the Byzantine streets of the Jolan area. An assault team of two Marines ran out from behind cover and put a rocket into a wall of an enemy strongpoint. Before the smoke cleared the squad behind them was up and moving through the hole and clearing the house. Just down the block another squad was doing the same thing. The house was cleared quickly and the Marines were running down the street to the next contact. Even in the midst of that mayhem, it was an awesome site.

The fighting has been incredibly close inside the city. The enemy is willing to die and is literally waiting until they see the whites of the eyes of the Marines before they open up. Just two days ago, as a firefight raged in close quarters, one of the interpreters yelled for the enemy in the house to surrender. The enemy yelled back that it was better to die and go to heaven than to surrender to infidels. This exchange is a graphic window into the world that the Marines and Soldiers have been fighting in these last 10 days.

I could go on and on about how the city was taken but one of the most amazing aspects to the fighting was that we saw virtually no civilians during the battle. Only after the fighting had passed did a few come out of their homes. They were provided food and water and most were evacuated out of the city. At least 90-95% of the people were gone from the city when we attacked.

I will end with a couple of stories of individual heroism that you may not have heard yet. I was told about both of these incidents shortly after they occurred. No doubt some of the facts will change slightly but I am confident that the meat is correct.

The first is a Marine from 3/5. His name is Corporal Yeager (Chuck Yeager's grandson). As the Marines cleared and apartment building, they got to the top floor and the point man kicked in the door. As he did so, an enemy grenade and a burst of gunfire came out. The explosion and enemy fire took off the point man's leg. He was then immediately shot in the arm as he lay in the doorway. Corporal Yeager tossed a grenade in the room and ran into the doorway and into the enemy fire in order to pull his buddy back to cover. As he was dragging the wounded Marine to cover, his own grenade came back through the doorway. Without pausing, he reached down and threw the grenade back through the door while he heaved his buddy to safety. The grenade went off inside the room and Cpl Yeager threw another in. He immediately entered the room following the second explosion. He gunned down three enemy all within three feet of where he stood and then let fly a third grenade as he backed out of the room to complete the evacuation of the wounded Marine. You have to understand that a grenade goes off within 5 seconds of having the pin pulled. Marines usually let them "cook off" for a second or two before tossing them in. Therefore, this entire episode took place in less than 30 seconds.

The second example comes from 3/1. Cpl Mitchell is a squad leader. He was wounded as his squad was clearing a house when some enemy threw pineapple grenades down on top of them. As he was getting triaged, the doctor told him that he had been shot through the arm. Cpl Mitchell told the doctor that he had actually been shot "a couple of days ago" and had given himself self aide on the wound. When the doctor got on him about not coming off the line, he firmly told the doctor that he was a squad leader and did not have time to get treated as his men were still fighting. There are a number of Marines who have been wounded multiple times but refuse to leave their fellow Marines.

It is incredibly humbling to walk among such men. They fought as hard as any Marines in history and deserve to be remembered as such. The enemy they fought burrowed into houses and fired through mouse holes cut in walls, lured them into houses rigged with explosives and detonated the houses on pursuing Marines, and actually hid behind surrender flags only to engage the Marines with small arms fire once they perceived that the Marines had let their guard down. I know of several instances where near dead enemy rolled grenades out on Marines who were preparing to render them aid. It was a fight to the finish in every sense and the Marines delivered. -------------------------------------------------------------

-- -- -- -- -- "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

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"jerry 47" snipped-for-privacy@hiwaay.net

Yes, I do.

We didn't like the krauts shooting our

In a perfect black and white world of 20/20 hindsight, Jerry, I might, possibly, tend to agree with you?..maybe. However, you seem to be looking at the event through a soda straw and do not know the events leading up to this moment in time. If you did, I think you would have voiced a different view.

The soldiers massacred at Malmedy had been captured, disarmed and had been herded into a POW holding area before they were shot and, at the time they were shot, they were absolutely NO threat to anyone.

In the case of this Marine, they had suffered casualties several days running before this in almost identical circumstances where the wounded terrorist was faking the seriousness of his wounds and blew up several Marines when they approached to render aid (see my post from a day or so ago). This wounded terrorist began moving just as the suicide bombers of days past had (including the day befor when he was wounded and another Marine was killed in just such a senario). He acted properly. In his shoes I would have done the same thing. Had you been in his shoes, you would have done the same thing as well (or you'd probably already be dead). Comparing this incident to Malmedy is ludicrous; two totally different situations.

In all honesty, the terrorists created this situation themselves by their actions involving planting bombs on their dead and wounded.

"Ya' get what ya' pay for." or "What goes around, comes around." I don't feel one damn bit sorry for the terrorist.

-- -- -- -- -- "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

My Home Page:

I worked with the Foreign Legion for a while in the first Gulf War (I still have a beret one of them gave me). Actually, I think they are some of France's best-trained, brave, and most professional troops (perhaps because almost none but the officers are actually French).

-- -- -- -- -- "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

My Home Page:

Did you somehow miss the hyperlink I provided, or just choose to ignore it?

No kidding. Hence the subject I chose for my post.

Amazing. That's precisely my point....

I haven't read anything either way. I suspect not, but that Marine couldn't have known for sure.

Was interested because it is similar to a case here in the UK where two Police Officers shot a man they had been told had a sawn off shotgun which turned out to be a table leg - someone called the emergency line and reported it, armed unit was deployed.

An inquest held this to be unlawfull killing.

Don't reply to the btconnect address - and remove nospam!!

Now got it. The thrust seems to be some sort of justification of the Falujah incident. The terms 'appears to show' and 'shooting the faker' (Having already been treated for his wounds by Marines) are clutching at straws.

Either way highly regrettable.

"From what I've seen thus far, it appears to show French troops shooting indiscriminately at African civilians. A number of deaths appear to have occurred at this incident, including several women. In fact, it seems like most of the dead were women, but that may have been because the cameraman focused on those victims. And that, just like the Marine shooting the faker in the mosque last week, may be the problem."

Heres a link to a proper UNBIASED news organisation which may be helpful.

Another whack on the French, although incorrect.

The FFL has more Frenchmen in its ranks than any other nationality, not counting officers. Native-born Frenchmen in the last 30 or so years have made up around 40% - 60% of the enlisted ranks of the FFL. There has been a large influx of Eastern Europeans in the last few years which has resulted in a smaller percentage of Frenchmen overall, but there are still many serving in the non-officer ranks.

Frenchmen can legally join the enlisted ranks of the FFL by declaring another nationality prior to joining up, usually that of a Francophone nation (that information comes right off of the official FFL recruiting website), i..e there are lots of "Belgians" in the FFL.

John Hairell ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com)

I don't think you've got it at all, David. It's not a thrust of justification or clutching at straws. It's more a verification of facts and grasp the true undersatanding of the entire situation. By the way, who are you saying was treated for his wounds, the faker or the Marine?

-- -- -- -- -- "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

My Home Page:

I did say "most" not "all" in my post. However, if the ratio was 40-60% in

1990-91, I guess most of the true Frenchmen must have been hiding somewhere when I liaisoned with them or, perhaps, they just wouldn't admit their true nationality (either is a possibility, I suppose). Of course, if one declares himself to be another nationality, I suppose he is no longer a Frenchman, oui?

-- -- -- -- -- "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

My Home Page:

I think there's some confusion here. You say it's an UNBIASED news organisation, but the link you posted is to the BBC.

See the BBC link. The Ivory Coast alleged incident (denied by the French and BBC reporter there) happened on 5th.November. Those leaping up and down now over this alleged incident, must also hold themselves in shame about not protesting it, if it did occur. The Fallujah incident (witnessed on film) occurred 7 days later.

The Iraqi had been treated for his injuries the day before he was shot according to the reporter Sites. I am not aware that it is even alleged the French finished off the wounded, so no comparrison even if the incident in Ivory Coast actually happened. Seems some are trying to overturn the rule about two wrongs not making a right.

Quite apart from whether or not the Beeb could be considered as unbiased, the article at that link is referring to an entirely different incident.

Thank you for the correction. The Reuters link at the bottom of the article, which advances nothing, is far more informative.

If you didnt like the reporting of the Fallujah incident then you will not like this one.