OT: July 4th - 10 great things about America

Umm, actually no. The Japanese NEVER intended to invade Australia. The knew they had neither the manpower nor the resources to do so. The nearest
landing point would have been Darwin and even in this modern era it's a helluva long way from Darwin to anywhere else in the country - in 1940 it would have been a nightmare. When you work out the distances on a map and then do some outback touring it makes you realise the (almost) impossible task of anyone, ever, invading Australia in the old-fashioned way. I live on the Queensland coast - our state capital is 1100km south, the top of the state is about double that to the north.
No offence, but don't swallow the oft repeated tales handed out by the 'historians' in the political and military arenas.
RobG (the Aussie one)
wrote:

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Rob Grinberg wrote:

FWIW "Hind sight is always 20-20"! Remember that expression?? We know now that invasion of Australia was not intended, but in April-May of 1942 the Japanese were rolling South through the Pacific like the proverbial unstoppable object. With all of Australia's trained manpower out in the North African Desert fighting Rommel and most of her "untrained" manpower in Japanese P.O.W. pens after the Singapore debacle, Australia looked like the next item on Tojo's list.     I had relatives who were in the 49th Fighter group that went into Darwin to set up a fighter defense. Since the North Coast was mostly protected by the Great Barrier Reef, the only place the Japanese could have brought in any quantity of supplies and men was Darwin, the only reasonable deep water port. My one relative who made it home talked for years about how big the saltwater crocodiles were around Darwin.
                            Bill Shuey
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Rob Grinberg wrote:

What, you mean like the aborigine extermination programs? oh, wait, that was the Aussies.
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
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chileans, japanese, russian, inuit, cree, tartars, magyars, minoans, mexicans, mayans, aztecs, moche, aleutes.......
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Maiesm72 wrote:

Actuully, the only such extermination program taht I can think of the the Aussie one. The Brits under Amhearst did the bit with the smallpox-laden blankets on the Injuns, but there was, so far as I know, no equivalent extermination program anywhat other than Australia. A "rob them of their land and stuff and convert 'em to Christianity" program, sure.
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

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Scott Lowther wrote:

Scotty:
    You might just need to take a closer look at some of the history of the U.S Government vs. The Native Americans; particularly where smallpox laden blankets were concerned. specifically the Mandan Indians.
                            Bill Shuey
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William H. Shuey wrote:

Billy:
You might just need to take a closer look at *actual* history, not comic book history. The one verifiable episode of smallpox laden blankets was due to the BRITISH. Specifically, Amhearst.
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

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Scott Lowther wrote:

Sorta like the American Indian "problem" of the "wild West "days resolution I would think PS: Anybody here building a Model?
-- Regards, Andy Aurora, Ontario Canada
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Don't take credit for something you didn't say. You did *not* start this thread. It was cwcrofoot that started this thread by posting what was a simple congratulatory note. And, it was *you*, and you alone, that opened the floodgates to the barrage you're now complaining about by making an obviously inflammatory remark. If I were you, I'd take a step back and check how you're coming accross to everyone else. In the meantime, take care not to fall from your soap box.

that
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. Your beef is with Tojo and the generals who thought that the rest of the workd was thiers for the taking. Who slaughtered women and children in China, who abused, tortured and neglected prisoners of war unto thier death in such a manner that beggars the credibilty of a civilized mind, who continued to fight a losing was well past the point where defeat was inevitable killing 100,000s of Japanese, abandoned on indefensible islands to kill and be killed. Who in the summer of 1945 with your cities bombed and burnt, your merchant fleet at the bottom of the Pacific unable to bring the absolute neccesities ie food and oil to the civil population (since Japan has little in the way of domestic supplies) continued thier absurd fantasy that they could somehow make the Americans sue for peace despite the obvious fact that we would not and were quite capable and prepared to invade Japan. Who were prepared to let Japan and the Japanese people and culture be extinguished by famine, disease, dehydration and exhaustion in the winter of 1945-1946 since there was no food, no clean water, no medecine or medical facilities whilst conducting an unwinnable battle in order to save a ridiculous concept called face.
Who chose of thier own free will to stupidly, treacherously, decietfully attack the US Pacific fleet on Sunday morning without a formal declaration of war without correctly assessing the probable response.
The real criminals in that war were those that went to war and though thier actions caused the death of millions of thier own citizens.
WWII in Asia started in Machuria in 1932 with the intial Japanese aggressions. It ended in ashes in 1945. You want to blame someone look to your leaders.
Should America sacrificed a million casualties in an invasion of Japan which inevitably would have resulted in the extermination of Japan? No and I have no regrets. The US was and continues to be about the most benefical occupier of conquered nations in history.
We didn't start it and frankly we were better to Japan than we had to be.
Take up your objections with Hideki Tojo.
Frank
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Well said.....
Barry
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Thanks
Frank
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your comments display some knowledge of the history of my country but little real understanding, I am well aware of all you have said (probably more so than you are). Like many though you seem to approach history with a very one eyed perspective. it is often said that history is written by the winning side and as such it is tainted by the bias of perspective of that side. I would not be so foolish to say that Japan was right in the actions they undertook in WW2 or that no atrocities were committed by my nation. But only a fool would take the view that none were committed by any of the "allied" forces also. War is an evil thing which has never brought anything but sadness and shame to humanity. I could write many more lines detailing such things and raising arguments as to whether the atomic weapons needed to be used but I feel in this forum such efforts would be pointless and inappropriate.
My initial post was made in fun as a joke of sorts and not intended to cause offence, some have obviously read it in that context and responded accordingly. But others have not and have lead this thread into areas that raise painful memories that are best left undisturbed. Thus I have decided to leave this thread, you may take it where you will but I shall respond no further on this matter. Oyasumiasai
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Umineko wrote:

Indeed. The eye trained to be civilized and honorable, two concepts wholly lacking in Japan prior to 1946.

GASP! You mean the Japanese just might not ahve been right to: * Torture prisoners of war * Toruture civilians in conquered regions * Use live prisoners for bio-weapons experimentation * Launch wars of aggression and conquest
I'm stunned, truly. Next you'll say that bayonetting Chinese babies might be "inappropriate"!
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
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not all of the whermacht is lilly white. but that is not meant to disparage the organization as a whole. i did some research, of the three known examples of ss men who refused to take part in atrocities, not one was punished. they were sent off to do other things. two of them were in einsatzgruppen.
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Gray Ghost wrote:

Which of course speaks to Imperial Japan having been a sicker culture than Nazi Germany. The Germans had to get special groups of psychopaths together to carry out atrocities. The Japanese soldiery would happily do it themselves.
Also, there were elements in Germany that were actively, if rather quietly, opposed to the atrocities (Canaris, frex). Were there similar dissenters in Japan?
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

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Frank, Not to inflame anything here, but the atomic drops on Japan didn't just affect the Japanese. My ex-wife's uncle was there with his ship's crew to help clean up and almost every one of the crew have died from some sort of cancer or like disease. He has cancer of the spine and is dead set scared of what's going to happen.
Just my comment on the post
RobG (the Aussie one)
wrote in message

death
bring
thier
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Not just him - most of the crew. And yes, I agree with the dropping of the bombs - it saved a lot of lives in combat. There's a book I have that I loaned to someone (can't remember who, worse luck!) written by one of the guys who was involved with Col. Tibbets and the whole thing on Tinian - if I remember the title, or who I gave it to, I'll post it here - a damn fine read.
RobG (the Aussie one)
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