OT, slightly: Anybody know of a source for...

19th century US Army cavalry tactics. I assume there was a printed manual back then. Might it be on the 'net somewhere?

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

Thanks, Bill! That was what I had in mind. Now to puzzle over the military-speak. :)

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

gotta ask, why??

Craig

-snip-

Being something of a John Ford Cavalry trilogy fan myself, I found this sometime ago which you might find interesting.

(full URL in case the tinyurl doesn't work is: You can scroll past the introduction and go right down to the actual discussion of the movies themselves starting on page 26.

As to how "authentic" they were, Major Prater's conclusion seems to be, "not bad at all".

Recognizing that Ford was making dramatic movies about fictional events and not doing an historical re-enactment, that sometimes he compromised or disregarded historical accuracy for dramatic effect, and that the practicalities of movie making mandated some compromises, it does appear that Ford made an effort to get most things right. And he got at least as much right - or mostly right - as he got wrong.

Certainly far superior to the typical "western" of that era.

Anyway, I found the thesis interesting though, of course, the actual prose is a bit dry and sometimes heavy going as is rather typical of master's theses - especially those authored by Air Force majors.

Cheers and all,

I watched a 1970s movie last weekend on the Nez Perce war and saw an unusual deployment of a column of twos. Specifically I wanted to see if it was a standard tactic. There was an Army officer mentioned in the credits as the technical advisor but we all know that they haven't the final word on movies.

The scene involved was the opening moves of the battle of White Bird Canyon. I found pictures on the 'net of the area and the movie was not shot there. The scenery in the movie was just too flat. OTOH, the move was carried out so smoothly that one had the feeling that one wasn't watching just extras at work. Possibly they were the unit from Ft. Apache that did a lot of movie work in the '70s.

In the same vein, as one who has seen John Ford's cavalry trilogy several hundred times, I'm not sure if they are authentic either. My best source there was my father who was in the US 3rd Cavalry when they were horse-borne. Need I say those three movies were among my dad's favourite movies?

BTW, Dad was the 'heavy weapons' man in his squad. This entitled him to an extra horse to lug the BAR around. As an extra, my Uncle Frank was in the Polish Cavalry during the Russo-Polish War. I wish I knew more of what he did but I really didn't find out until after he was gone.

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

i worked with a man named floyd wells who was the last african-american to qualify as sharpshooter from a horse. he laughed at all the cavalry movies, especially john ford's. he said the indian tactics were just silly and the cav repsonses would have gotten them dead. it was his ipinion that custer was a real yahoo and leaving his best firepower behind proves it. he said the gatkings did not really slow them down but custer was a glory dog with political ambitions. he said all this before it became pop culture.

the other side of the coin.

I've always wondered if anything historical ever took place in Monument Valley in AT and UT. Seems like all of John Ford's horse operas took place around there. Were there forts and outposts in that area or did he just film there because of the rock formations?

Craig

Saw a doumentary on PBS recently - in the "American Masters" series - on John Ford and John Wayne. As they told it, Ford filmed there strictly because he loved the landscape and nothing more.

...but that doesn't mean nothing historically significant ever happened there.

Likewise I have watched and enjoyed all of John Ford's "horse operas" I've always wondered if anything ever did take place in Monument Valley in AZ and UT or did he just film there because of the rock formations. Seems like every western he did was in the same local.

Craig

Indeed there was. The longest known buggy ride ever embarked upon is known to have passed thru Monument Valley, circa 1967. Claudia Cardinale and her buggy druver in "Once Upon a Time in the West" start their trip from a train depot set in Spain! ;-)

WmB

The scene in "Fort Apache" that takes place at the Indian agent's store was filmed in Corriganville, Calif. I've seen stills of the place with a few young ladies decorating the steps.

Corriganville will be really familiar to those of us who watched any amount of TV westerns and some movies. Some of those rocks should have gotten cuts of the takes. :)

Speaking of cheesecake shots, I ran into a whole bunch of colour shots taken in Monument Valley with some famous 'named' rocks in the backgrounds. This was about a year ago on another group.

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

I watched that movie 'once' and I felt like I had made the trip on foot. I've never watched it again - Claudia or no. That movies was about as exciting as watching paint dry. I've never really taken a liking to Eastwood's Italian Westerns either. I have no real objection to them. They just don't do anything for me.

Back to the trilogy, whilst I'm waffling on, "Rio Grande" seems to have been based on a short story published in the Saturday Evening Post. I bumped into a reprint in one of the latter day issues of the same magazine. The movie story was altered to fit Wayne as he would have had to be overreaching to get anywhere near the main character in the print story.

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

Try "Son of the Morning Star" for a look at Custer. The writing style is a bit too rambling to use as a reference book (one simply can't recall on what page which thought was expressed) but taken as a whole one gets the picture of a smartass who demanded strict disciplne from his underlings but flaunted the rules applied to his own conduct.

I used to use the Gatling Gun episode at work those times when the big wheels would advocate throwing out a worthwhile practice to hurry things up. Part of my workplace charm. ;)

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.