Re: Last survivor of Christmas truce passes-

In December of 1914, the mindset was still that of a "grand adventure" although some of the glitter was wearing off. By Christmas of 1915 (the watchful eyes of senior commanders notwithstanding), the horrors of the war were clearly evident to all participants, along with the (understandable) elevated bitter feelings for those from the "other side." I am not surprised at all that it didn't catch on the next year, nor was even attempted after that.

my grandfathe said that most of the gemans, french and english soldiers he dealt with in 17-18 didn't really hate each other. they hated the war and officers and the seemingly endless death, but not their opposite numbers. from what i read, in 1915, brass hats made an effort to prevent a reoccurence. i'm not an expert on ww1, and i cannot swear my grandfather was either, but he did have lots of german friends from his part after the war ended.

Thanks for the tip on the book. The official count of surviving Canadian Great War vets as of November 11,

Just one of the reasons I'm donating my body to science...

My great cousin was a Marine in WW-I and he talked to me about the Great War back in the 50s when I was a kid and I still remember his stories. He told me that even though he, himself, was the son of a 1st generation German immigrant neither he, nor any other Marine in his unit, had any use for the Germans. They treated German prisoners fairly but had absolutely no problem with killing them in battle - he was at Chateau Thierre (Belleau Wood) and the St Miehel (Argonne Forest) campaigns.

i remember reading about a black marine unit stationed next to a white, mostly southern unit, apparently they had to be moved because the white marines would kill a black marine, the blacks would kill two whites and it escalated until more were being killed than by the germans.

Spent Thanksgiving in Disneyland. Crowded, great choices of venue for dinner.

While waiting for fireworks, in line for rides, etc. had chances to talk to several vets ranging from WWI to present. Aside from hearing some great war stories also had the opportunity to thank them for their service and sacrafice. Every one stated that he (and one she from WWII) very rarely hear thanks, even though they wear a distinguishing cap, etc.

Justin has the second of two leg operations on 12/23 and will be confined to bed for a week, then very limited for a month. Because Channukah starts on 12/25 he'll be in bed for both Christmas and Chrstmas, so we'll be spendng a couple of afternoons prior to surgery visiting vets at the VA hospital and a couple of retirement homes in the area. He looks forward to that as much as we do. There are a few vets right down the street from us that we visit every week on walks. The other day he identified a B-17 in a magazine that I was reading as "Nine-O-Nine". When we left on our walk he insisted on taking the magazine with him. We stopped to talk to the old B-17 pilot down the street and Justing gave him the magazine. Sad to say never would have thought of that.

To all of you guys and gals here who served and to those who lost loved ones and frends we give our thanks.

Tom

e> In article , e> "Bill Woodier" wrote: >> In December of 1914, the mindset was still that of a "grand >> adventure" although some of the glitter was wearing off. By >> Christmas of 1915 (the watchful eyes of senior commanders >> notwithstanding), the horrors of the war were clearly evident >> to all participants, along with the (understandable) elevated >> bitter feelings for those from the "other side." I am not >> surprised at all that it didn't catch on the next year, nor was >> even attempted after that.

e> my grandfathe said that most of the gemans, french and english e> soldiers he dealt with in 17-18 didn't really hate each e> other. they hated the war and officers and the seemingly e> endless death, but not their opposite numbers. from what i e> read, in 1915, brass hats made an effort to prevent a e> reoccurence. i'm not an expert on ww1, and i cannot swear my e> grandfather was either, but he did have lots of german friends e> from his part after the war ended.

That is a moving tale there, 'e'. I guess a sure sign of good mental health is the ability to make friends with those faced in warfare - and not judge people based on various facets of their character/personality. Your grandfather was no doubt a remarkable man.

yeah, he was a pissah. stayed active in vets organizations to the day he died. never hesitated telling anyone interested about his expiriences and even wrote many of them down.

My uncle was in one of the lead battalions driving into Germany.

He felt the same toward the Germans (and the Vichy French and Italians before that) until he helped liberate the first of three death camps.

After that he shot any German with a weapon who didn't have his hands up, as did every man in that position in his unit. That includes three civilians, two with grenades and one with a Panzerfaust who was about

War is one thng, wholesale intentional up close slaughter of millions of civilians is something else entirely.

Tom

maiesm72@netscape> My uncle was in one of the lead battalions maiesm72@netscape> driving into Germany. He felt the same toward maiesm72@netscape> the Germans (and the Vichy French and Italians maiesm72@netscape> before that) until he helped liberate the first maiesm72@netscape> of three death camps.

maiesm72@netscape> After that he shot any German with a weapon who maiesm72@netscape> didn't have his hands up, as did every man in maiesm72@netscape> that position in his unit. That includes three maiesm72@netscape> civilians, two with grenades and one with a maiesm72@netscape> Panzerfaust who was about 13 years old. Didn't maiesm72@netscape> flinch an inch.

maiesm72@netscape> War is one thng, wholesale intentional up close maiesm72@netscape> slaughter of millions of civilians is something maiesm72@netscape> else entirely.

I guess that's just another instance of a "tipping point", based on our human trait of categorizing other humans based on one or two aspects of their makeup (pun intended). It's the people who remained calm amidst such atrocities, and decided not to group all the "enemy" into one basket that are remarkable - the rest, like your uncle, are merely normal. It is interesting that people who "tip" at one instance will not "tip" at others, so it is not a matter of saying your uncle was manipulated eaily or anything like that, so please don't take this personally.

I understand his uncle's feelings totally and completely. I knew my relative as a good, kind, rational man and I was surprised at the feelings my great cousin related to me about his time as a Marine in the Great War.....until I went to war myself. It's much easier to understand those feelings if you've seen the elephant yourself. If not, it's probably impossible to understand. C'est la Guerre.