SW2004, Splines still SUCK!!!

"Roland Schwarz" wrote in news:FiYsb.36077$M02.26338 @twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

go to macros library link, look for eqcurve. run the macro, type in an equation, and it will build a spline for you in a sketch. other people on the SW site have 3D equation macros

matt

yes I think a wish list/forum would be a good idea. I think we need to get specific requests worked out that really would enhance how users actually tackle real world projects. it seems to me only the people with a real interest in surfaces -minority?-are going to be motivated enough to push for change. unless we articulate our requirements to SW and get them a priority the functional improvements we seek will be continually bypassed in favour of marketing fluff.

"Do you think that an "advanced surfacing only" wish-list (or even a wish thread) would help?"

Would be even better if you had an employee at SolidWorks who actually wanted to see the proper "advanced surfacing only" wish-list implemented.

Seems to me that Mark Biasotti should be the one presenting this list....

Why Mark Biasotti ???

Because SolidWorks Corp. has at least 20 seats to gain just from his account and he seems to have good relations with SolidWorks employees.

The only thing that concerns me is that Mark Biasotti seems to settle for very little. Perhaps with a group of angry SolidWorks users behind him he might get tougher. :>)

How happy do you think SolidWorks management and employees were with Mark Biasotti's Pro/E vs SolidWorks article. I'd say not many !!! This is a good thing. That entire article should be place on a website where it can be seen by anybody and referred to constantly in this newsgroup.

jon

You can't actually use it either. Have you EVER actually used a 3D system for ANYTHING productive? Nope.

Thank you for the ad, oh great clueless one.

NURBS is NURBS, idiot.

Functionality is pretty independent of the kernel.

UG uses parasolid, and has incredible functionality. The kernel, be it ACIS or parasolid, is just the last step in expressing the geometric result of a surface modelling routine.

"Functionality is pretty independent of the kernel."

Wrong. Let me give you some examples of why your wrong and how wrong you are. I don't mean to be rude but you are way off base and I'm more than happy to prove it.

"UG uses parasolid, and has incredible functionality."

Yes it does. However the Parasolid kernel is devoid of the surfacing routines that are in Unigraphics. UGS PLM Solutions (their new name this week) is not about to give away the farm ! When a company chooses to use Parasolid and they wish to offer a full featured hybrid modeler that company *MUST marry outside surfacing routines to Parasolid* and try and get both to play nice. Good "F"ing luck ... It doesn't work very well.

Would you like a reference that will confirm this for you ? This company clearly states that they have married their surfacing routines to Parasolid. Why ??? Because the needed surfacing routines are not in Parasolid. Just ask and I'll provide the reference.

• Most people in this newsgroup have no idea that with ACIS not only are the surfacing routines there but the spline routines are there as well. *

If SolidWorks used ACIS as it's modeling kernel users of SolidWorks would not be having the massive problems with splines that they are having now.

Concepts users ACIS. Anyone can call Concepts and they will be glad to tell you that the spline routines in Concepts are a part of the ACIS kernel.

jon

"Would you like a reference that will confirm this for you ? This company clearly states that they have married their surfacing routines to Parasolid. Why ??? Because the needed surfacing routines are not in Parasolid. Just ask and I'll provide the reference."

Tell you what, you don't even have to ask. Here is proof of what I have stated for many years in this newsgroup:

"Despite the limitations of the early personal computers the products were always designed to run on the PC platforms, first under MS-DOS and later within the Windows environment. Initial expansion was fuelled by an innovative approach to three dimensional modelling and machining. Having developed its own surface modelling and been among the first practical PC applications for free form design, the company went on to propose the first PC implementation of the EDS Parasolid modeller which has latterly become so popular with software developers and is now the de-facto standard for solid modellers."

As you can now tell from what is above, Vero Software was the first company to license Parasolid kernel and marry their surfacing routines to Parasolid.

• If Parasolid had the needed functionality, Vero would not of had to marry their surfacing routines to Parasolid !!! *

Further, SolidWorks would not be having the problems it has with trying to get surfacing to work with Parasolid.

The surfacing tools that are needed to create a true hybrid modeler simply do not exist in the Parasolid kernel.

Concepts has no such problems... why ??? Because Tim Olson the creator and owner of Concepts is smart enough to use ACIS.

Note, Autodesk was smart enough to purchase ACIS code at version 7 and rest their future on developing that code in what they now call ShapeManager.

Simply put, when a company chooses to use Parasolid they get the most robust solid kernel in the business. What they don't get is a hybrid modeling kernel. As ACIS has gotten better and better it has become a much more viable solution.

Alibre uses ACIS IronCAD uses ACIS Ashlar-Vellum Cobalt uses ACIS Autodesk Inventor is based on ACIS Cadkey Workshop uses ACIS Concepts uses ACIS Cimatron uses ACIS

ACIS is far and away a more complete solution than Parasolid. ACIS, while still maybe not quite as robust as Parasolid at solid modeling, is and has been good enough.

jon

banquer"

People have been trying to explain such simple things to The Idiot Banquer for many years. He's still totally clueless in his rants. Give it a go .

This is how Don LaCourse describes ACIS.

"ACIS is an object-oriented C++ geometry library that comprises 35 DLLs and integrates wire frame, surface, and solid modeling with both manifold and nonmanifold topology. It gives application developers a rich set of geometric operations for constructing and manipulating complex models. These include blending, sweeping, imprinting, covering, lofting, skinning, offsetting, slicing, stitching, sectioning, fitting, and interpolating surfaces. ACIS also offers a complete set of regularized and nonregularized Boolean operations, and length, area, and mass property inquiry functions. Its Laws Symbolic Math Interface and NURBS-based deformation allow the integration of surface and solid modeling. The ACIS kernel outputs a SAT file format that any ACIS-enabled application can read directly. "

Now lets take a look at how Don LaCourse describes VX's UPG2 kernel used in Vision:

"UPG2 (Unified Parametric Geometry-Second Generation) is a proprietary robust geometric modeling kernel unique to the CAD/CAM system VX Vision (figure 6) from Varimetrix

UPG2 integrates solid, surface, wire frame, and drafting geometry as well as process, tool path, and other product information in a single, unified database."

The UPG2 kernel addresses the full range of 3D modeling tasks, from industrial design through mechanical engineering to mold and tool design within the context of VX Vision's Unified Modeling environment. This environment adapts hybrid-modeling techniques in a transparent manner so designers can seamlessly work in and move among solid, surface, and wire frame representations.

"UPG2 supports such functions as nonmanifold shapes, unlimited undo/redo, object versioning, advanced free-form surface creation, complex filleting and blending, and true in-context modeling of assemblies. The kernel's Proximity Compliant Tolerancing uses incremental, on-the-fly healing technology rather than fixed, relative or adaptive schemes. This provides substantial improvement in performance, according to the company."

jon

re: "I don't mean to be rude ..."

I've noticed that you are very much so, to nearly everyone. Just an observation.

....but I won't let that fact stop me from following up on your suggested reading.

I had the opportunity to do some major model surgery on Pro/E (pre-Granite) and parasolid in UG. Parasolid is nearly alive when it comes to healing abilities. Definitely a cut above what Pro/E had (was it ACIS?)

I don't know the politics that keep others from fully exploiting parasolid's possibilities, but I have seen quite well what it can do.

I'm working on it.

jon

"I don't know the politics that keep others from fully exploiting parasolid's possibilities, but I have seen quite well what it can do."

The bottom line is that the *high level routines* that need to be in Parasolid don't exist ! This makes it extremely difficult for software developers and it's why no seamless, unified, hybrid solution has ever appeared that makes use of Parasolid besides UGS PLM Solutions products. A few years back I discussed the lack of high level surfacing routines in Parasolid with Mike Crown who use to work for Varimetrix, now VX. Mike Crown felt that SolidWorks Corp. would have a very difficult time making SolidWorks a true seamless, unified, hybrid modeler. Time has proven Mike Crown to be one hundred percent correct.

Mike Crown was one of the nicest, sharpest guys in the CAD/CAM business and he was well liked by several of us on alt.machines.cnc. Total straight shooter and a long time employee of Varimetrix (now VX).

Go have a look at the ACIS website. Download the .PDF on the

3D ACIS modeler. Note how Spatial pushes the hybrid capabilities of ACIS.

"ACIS is ideal for constructing applications with hybrid modeling features- integrating wireframe, surface, and solid modeling functionality with both manifold and non-manifold topology, and a rich set of geometric operations."

Like I've said for many years in this newsgroup, ACIS contains the high level routines that make it much, much easier to produce a seamless, unified, hybrid modeler.

With Parasolid, this is obviously a bitch to do and no one has done it besides UGS PLM Solutions.

I do not believe for one moment that SolidWorks Corp can pull it off alone. Only if other vendors such as D-Cubed create more robust products can any real progress be made.

Based on these FACTS, this should give people a very good idea of why Autodesk hired D-Cubed to work on their kernel !

This may have been the reason why a slowdown occurred in what D-Cubed has been able to produce with 2D DCM as well as

3D DCM as D-Cubed does what probably is much more lucrative work for Autodesk.

SolidWorks must make the move to ACIS or it's going to be a long slow painful road to seamless, unified, hybrid modeling in SolidWorks.

It's also going to be very embarrassing when Alibre and IronCAD move past SolidWorks in the second quarter of next year by utilizing the surfacing routines in the ACIS kernel.

At $995 Concepts already makes SolidWorks look very bad when it comes to pure modeling capabilities.

jon

Take a good look at UGS PLM Solutions website for Parasolid. No emphasis whatsoever on building a hybrid modeler with Parasolid. None... just on how robust Parasolid is and that Parasolid is the only kernel used in a high-end solution (theirs)... Unigraphics.

Bottom line.... Parasolid does not contain the high level surfacing routines and other various tools that developers badly need to create a seamless, unified, hybrid modeler.

jon

Dear clueless idiot: It's a kernel.

What part of all that caused your reading comprehension to bog down yet again?

Got your head on backwards again today?

What's a "kernel", clueless idiot?

He hung up on you , right?

Nope. It's proven that you are clueless.

Never saw post one from him and a search finds not a single one. Lots of noise by jon_blabber though . All from one attempted (collect?) phone call years ago? LOL ....

Still employed there is he? The black ball says "No".