Athearn and Hobby Store vs Mail order.

John, you seem to be working under the assumption that there's only one kind of non-storefront dealer - A guy who's selling Athearn at 45% off, and not running a proper business.

I looked at your website. Your prices are very competitive. In fact, they are about the same as MANY non-storefront dealers, and in some cases better! Many non-storefront dealers have learned that you can't live on a 10% markup, and have brought their prices more in line with what you do.

I don't know of ANY distributor or manufacturer who will sell to "anyone". All that I've seen require a tax ID, business banking accounts, etc. Some require a physical storefront, some do not. Some loosely require one, but will make exceptions based on the characteristics of the dealer.

Well, Walthers is a major model RR distributor. From what I saw, Horizon has a limited selection of lines. (Albeit some major ones.) Also, Walthers has an e-tailer account.

As I mentioned in response to Dave Henk, look at what happened to Bowser when they went to exclusive distribution. Nice cars, in particular, but missing from a lot of shops.

So how about the non-storefront dealer who's paying the same wholesale price as you, charging the same retail price as you, and dealing in the same honest manner that you do? Other than not having a storefront, how is he different from your competition across town, or across the country?

You can bet somewhere in Iowa there's another dealer saying, "Boy, look at that Peach Creek Shops, and the low prices he charges. Fancy big-city dealer. Probably gets a sweetheart deal by driving over to Life-Like. Big fancy website, I can't afford that. I'll bet he inherited that house his store's in from his grandmother. He can't possibly afford to pay the rent on that with those prices. They should do something about those discounters. It's not fair."

But it IS fair. Even if you did inherit the building, giving you an overhead advantage, you're not doing anything wrong! Maybe you've got a better location, or took more risk, or you might just be smarter. So our Iowa friend doesn't really have cause to complain, does he?

I've long said here that any model railroad dealer should operate in a business-like manner. That means buying through established channels, business bank accounts, collecting and remitting sales tax, reporting income, using proper accounting, and charging an amount sufficient to sustain a business, NOT run a hobby. Many of today's non-storefront dealers are doing that. Sure, there's an advantage of LOWER overhead. (But certainly not zero, as I've seen some claim.) That gives a certain price advantage. But you have advantages, too. It's harder to compete with someone with lower overhead, but certainly not impossible. You seem to be doing it.

You said you can compete with mail-order discounts, and you seem to do that well. And, restrictions or no, there will ALWAYS be someone, like Long's for example, who goes the low-price route.

So if the competition's going to be there anyway, and you can compete, what difference does it make whether that competition has a front door or not?

Peter King in NY

Did I say that? If I conveyed that message it certainly wasn't intended. I did, or thought I did,say that there are legitimate dealers and some not so legitimate dealers. For the salke of definition a legitimate dealer does the following. He has a business license, pays taxes and sells wherever, and at whatever price he feels is appropriate. Thats business.

Thank you!

Aha, you do not know all that goes on in this world! Neither do I. But..... I have knowledge of some clubs that have "appointed" someone as a dealer and bought wholesale just for the club members! Is this a legitimate dealership? I don't think so.

Horizon is actually bigger than Walthers. Their major market is RC and they have their own proprietary lines. Horizon is attempting to become a major player in the train business.

Fact is, he isn't. If he is business, taxes, licenses, accounting, etc. and sells at a train show or from his basement, there is no difference. He's in it for the long haul and provides service to his customers, he's as legitimate as it gets.

I wish!

My grandmother had better taste!

He can't possibly afford to pay the

Oh yes, I pay the rent! Buy me a cup of coffee and I'll tell you about my landlord who just lost the building on a forclosure sale. Don't worry, the new owner loves us!

Complain? We can all complain, if we want to spend our time doing that. I especially like the comment about the "big city" dealer. Hell, those are the guys I complain about!

Well put!

Peter, its obvious that you understand the model railroad business!

Peter King in NY

I find the notion of prepaying a bit ridiculous. That means the shop is undercapitalized. Now if you order an item that is very expensive and something I'd never ever stock in a million years, and I had never met you then I'd ask for a minimal deposit (to be used to pay return shipping if you fail to pick up). My regular customers know that all they have to do is call and I'll set aside items or get it when they need it. This includes a $1200 P-51 a fellow wanted. There is a shop in town that does ask for prepayment and even after paying is in no hurry to get the goods in stock. I predict their demise down the road. They were definetly not happy when they heard I was moving across the street from them.

Dave

True. Usually it'll cause a small drop off but only until the next payday. Heck I go the the show in town every February looking for the odd detail parts and scenery pieces. Of course I'm seldom looking for rolling stock as I can give myself a pretty good discount on those. My biggest problem with attending shows is running into many folks I know and spending more time chatting then looking.

Dave

What???

Dave

Good now I know he's not talking about my store as I have no upstairs nor cats.

Dave

No foul, I was just curious as to what the statement meant. Thanks

Froggy penned:

Dunno Jerry. I never heard of B&M Shops, or if I did, I don't remember. A really excellent HS exists about a thirty or forty minute drive from me. He discounts generously and carries a great stock of HO and N scale items. He is not my LHS in the strictest sense as there are three closer. In the real-world sense, however, he is my LHS since I will pass the other three to get to his shop.

.................F>

Well, for a time, it will satisfy the demand for a certain product. There are only so many purchases of Item X to be made in a year, and so for each one that is made at the deep discounter at a train show, that is one less sale to be made at your FLHS. But I doubt that the influence is as long as a year, and also that people will wait as laong as that for the next show, when something new comes out and they have to have it Right Now!

Jeff Sc. Wish I Lived Closer To An Oasis, Ga.

You, of course. I'm you, and you're me...no, wait a minute, I'm not a top poster. Never mind...one of us must be someone else.

OK, now it makes sense.

My apologies for misunderstanding you, John. Looks like we're pretty much in agreement!

Peter King in NY

This should solve it. Rathburne is the second from the right, the guy standing behind the other fellow. Do you remember this guy coming into your store?

The vendor is exempt from collecting the sales tax unless they have a physical presence in the state, but that doesn't mean the purchaser doesn't still owe it. Most states have laws requiring the purchaser of out-of-state goods to pay taxes, though they are almost never enforced. In California, it is known as a "use tax", and there is a rarely seen special form on which you can report the amount. Some states have started putting a line on their income tax forms for reporting the amount.

Mark Alan Miller

Oh boy ! I'll bet Rathburne is laughing himself silly, as he probably does every time this urban legend pops up.

I have yet to see any conclusive proof regarding the identity of this individual, and I'm not very sure that I would believe anything other than a face to face meeting with Rathburne himself.

I think some of you obsess a little too much on "Ratty", as he is called by some. He has his opinions and ideas and is just as free to post them here as is the next guy. IMO, there are a few of you here who really need to get off his case and let him be.

The fellow on the far left looks just like someone I know who is in our operating group here in Georgia. I am quite certain that it is not him, but he sure looks like him.

.................F>

The problem is that there are about 30,000 different sales taxes in the USA: State, County, City, Special District, etc.

Years ago I bought a pack of gum at JFK, I think I paid NY, NYC and PATH sales tax.

Untill somebody comes up with a solution so that a store in Nebraska can figure out what the sales tax is in Sussex County, NY. There will be no way to fairly collect sales tax on mail order.

Yes, Amazon, and other do collect sales tax, but they have the man and computer power to do it.

-Hudson

Very strange................ Looks like a nice enough chap............................

You specifically did not make any difference between any dealers other than the traditional stores like yourself. If you did not intend to convey that message, you did. Go back and read your post.

fishplate. Who is this guy showing up all of the sudden with very familiar messages? He is somebody else on the forum, double posting under fishplate name.