Diesel locos designations

On 2/6/2008 9:47 PM Karl P Anderson spake thus:

While we're on the subject, since we've got folks here from all over the world, what about, say, Yurpeen locomotives: were there designations for them that followed some logical scheme according to type? What about Asian ones?

Reply to
David Nebenzahl
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You've got me there, I thought shreads were truely international!

Reply to
Greg Procter

Yes - but the original design was quickly upgraded with a higher gear ratio and higher horsepower.

Reply to
Greg Procter

The EMD FT was a built as a freight engine.

Mostly the F series followed the E series. As passenger service withered of course more engines were used for freight.

Paul

Reply to
Paul Newhouse

Yurp is a whole lot of countries and a whole lot of manufacturers. German railways used V for Diesel and a number indicating 10s of horsepower. (eg V 200 Diesel hydraulic - 2000 bhp)

New Zealand used D (Diesel and a suffix a, b, c, d, ... except the the first one was De, then Df, Dg, Da, ...

Shunting tractors are Tr.

Reply to
Greg Procter

The E series and F(t)s were concurrent. The Es had more powerful prime movers (motors) but didn't need the torque of 6 axle mounted motors because the requirement was for horsepower to maintain higher running speeds. The Fs needed more tractive effort for slow heavy haulage rather than horsepower. After a few years Diesel engine horsepower had risen so it became possible to house the horse power in smaller locos so the Fs could achieve almost everything that Es could.

Reply to
Greg Procter

"Tobias Wittwer" wrote

Could you cite that please? Everything I can find on the early SDs (7s and

9s) indicates that normally the only extra weight in them was a somewhat longer frame, 6-wheel instead of four-wheel trucks, and a pair of extra wheels and traction motors. That would hardly add up to 50% more weight than the GP models they sprang from, as everything else on the SDs was the same as the GPs.

Now there *were* some early SDs that were built with added weight: two of the S.P.'s early SD7s (numbers 5288 and 5289) had an extra 15 tons of concrete in their frames, but according to John Signor on P. 221 of his book "Southern Pacific's Coast Line", "it made little difference in practise", and I've seen nothing that suggests any more of the S.P.'s SD models were ever ballasted after that.

Pete

Reply to
P. Roehling

Don't you mean shreuds?

Reply to
Steve Caple

Am Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:19:39 -0800 schrieb P. Roehling:

The Fallen Flags website

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has the operating manual of the SD7, which says that it was available in either 300,000 or 360,000 pound versions. SD18 is 386,460 pounds, SD24 between 330,000 and 390,000, depending on the amount of ballasting. GP7 is 240,000 pounds. So yes, the "light" SD7 actually has a slightly lower axle load than the GP7 (25 tons vs. 30 tons), but most others are 50% heavier than the Geeps.

You also said in your original mail that modern SDs need the six axles to distribute the weight, implying that a similarly powerful engine could not be built light enough to use four axles. I don't agree with that, as there were both GP60s and SD60s, both with a 3,800 hp prime mover. I don't think it would be a problem to build a GP70ACe or whatever it would be called, it's just that nobody would buy it, as they wouldn't be able to develop the tractive effort necessary to get all that power on the rails. NS even orders their new locos downgraded to 4,000 hp (ES40DC).

Toby

Reply to
Tobias Wittwer

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:55:44 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Greg Procter instead replied:

"Shreads?" No such word. Perhaps you meant shreds? Or some word in some other language than English?

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

Am Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:03:16 +1300 schrieb Greg Procter:

No, the number was not related to the horsepower. The V200 had 2,200 hp, the V200.1 2,700. IIRC, the V200 was as "double V100", as it had two of the engines used in the V100. For the same reason, the V160 was called just that, as "double V80", though later on it was decided to use one more powerful engine instead of two. Finally, the V90 has the same engine as the V100, was developed later, and was heavier, so the numbers really say nothing about either horsepower or age. But yes, until 1968, V was used for diesels (Verbrennungsmotor) and E for electrics. After 1968, steam was in the 0 range, electrics in the 1 range, and diesels 2 (the V200 became the 220 and 221, V100 the 211 and 212, V90 the 290 etc.). 3 are small locos, 4 electric MU trains, 6 diesel MU trains, 7 service equipment. With steam locos, there was a further subdivision since the 1920s. 01 to 19 were express engines (I think speed of 100 kph or faster), from 20 passenger, from 40 freight etc. (I don't remember all the details). There where of course many different models as all the state railroads were combined into one, so e.g. all Pacifics ended up with an 18 number, while all 0-6-0 (C) tender engines where 89s.

Toby

Reply to
Tobias Wittwer

snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

*snip*

E's were EMDs, and EMD doesn't seem to follow a purpose-based numbering scheme.

Alco, OTOH, sorta did. If you're interested, take a look at:

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Puckdropper

Reply to
Puckdropper

Puckdropper wrote in news:9gXqj.1$pW6.123001 @news.sisna.com:

Upon further research, they do seem to have a bit of a purpose-based model number scheme.

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Puckdropper

Reply to
Puckdropper

E and F were apparently design project designations used by EMD prior to GP (General Purpose), SD (Special Duty), and SW (SWitcher). F may have been intended to denote Freight, but as F units were also sold with steam generators (boilers) for passenger service, the "Freight" interpretation would at best be ambiguous.

The FP7 and FP9 were the only F models (F Passenger) whose designation referred to their intended use; they were 4ft longer than standard Fs, to make room for a larger steam generator.

There was also an FL7 and FL9, which as far as I can make out meant F eLectric: it had 3rd rail shoes on an A1A trailing truck for use on New York electric lines. Only the New Haven had these (30 of each.)

The earliest F units were the FTA/B. FT _may_ have been intended to mean "FreighT, but I don't recall reading anything that implies this. Someone with a better knowledge of EMD's history may be able to settle that point.

HTH

-- wolf k.

Reply to
Wolf K.

Karl, Not that tthey mean too much now a days but GP means general purpose (usually two axle trucks), SD means special duty (usually three axle trucks). Not sure about the F other than they came after the E units. Paul

What do the letters designations for diesel locomotives mean? I see GP, SD, F7, etc. Is it possible to look at a loco and know what its designation is? Is there a table some where that lists all the designations? Karl

Reply to
PJCS

PS - what colour shreuds are they?

Reply to
Steve Caple

Not necessarily. EMD FL9's had 5 axles.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
Reply to
Pac Man

The "T" in "FT" stood for "Truss frame", IIRC (just like the Cast and Welded frames). The F in FT came from Fourteen Hundred Hp (they rounded up from 1350Hp).

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
Reply to
Pac Man

"Wolf K." wrote in message news:47ac59e4$0$14108$ snipped-for-privacy@news.newshosting.com...

As mentioned elsewhere, the E's were for 1800Hp, the F's for 1400Hp (really 1350), S's for 600Hp, etc. The second letter was for the frame type (Cast, Welded, or Truss).

By that time, the "F" designation had ceased being anything but a sales tool, so the addition of a "P" for passenger was a logical addition.

Um, not hardly. For starters, there was never an FL7, so I don't know what you're talking about there. The original FL9 design was actually never made. EMD saw a need for long distance passenger F-units (think ATSF), and at that time (mid-1950's) the limiting range factor for passenger F's was not fuel, but the size of their water tanks for steam heat. EMD came up with a design for a "water buffalo" F-unit. They stretched a FP9, and added large water tanks before and after the 567C (1750Hp) prime mover. The 5th axle was created to deal with all this water weight, and the "L" designation came from "Lengthened", IIRC. This design never sold. Meanwhile, the New Haven came knocking to EMD about a dual-powered loco. EMD went over it's designs and found the unused FL9 plan. They removed the water tanks, added 3rd rail equipment, and viola! The NH's EDER-5 (Electric/Diesel-Electric Road #5) was born, 2000-2029. After testing on the NH, the front Blomberg truck was changed to a short B-Flexicoil truck with a 3rd rail beam, and in 1956-7 the first 30 NH FL9's were delivered. Then, in 1960, the NH needed more locos but was hemorrhaging money. They applied to the Federal Gov't for assistance in paying for them. The Feds agreed to a "loan", but only if the new engines were the same as the existing design and they were to be used for passenger trains only. NH went back to EMD for 30 more FL9's, but EMD had stopped making them...they had gone on to GP18's with the 567D (1800Hp) prime mover. So to make sure of the Gov't's approval, they called them FL9's when they were actually FL18's (NH called them EDER-5a, 2030-2059)...the last F-units ever made. They also removed the 3rd seat in the cab for the head-end brakeman, and removed the nose MU connections (the NH didn't care...they just ran an older FL9 between two new ones on freight trains). Also, the original rooftop DC pantograph was damaging the overhead 3rd rail in GCT, so these engines were delivered without it or the rear ladder to service it.

Fourteen Hundred Horsepower (F), Truss Frame (T).

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
Reply to
Pac Man

Essentially, Alco called everything before the Century series "DLxxx". Diesel Locomotive #xxx. The "PA", "FA", "RS", "HH", etc. designations were mostly (if not all) applied retroactively by railfans...which is probably why it makes sense (most of the time). For example, a DL701 is called an RS-11 by railfans.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
Reply to
Pac Man

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