How Long is Yours? (Consist)

I designed mine for 25 wagons + 1 loco, but this fills the passing bays to capacity and tends to look too long. As my prototype used up to 5/6 locos this leaves space for 20 wagons. This combination looks OK. As one loco can actually haul this load, I think I need some expotential equivalent of model wagons to prototype:

Regards, Greg.P.

Carter Braxt> I usually run about a dozen freight cars behind my steamer because anything

On my 12 x 16 foot GER, 16 cars plus van behind two diesels or 12 cars plus van behind steam. In the latter case that's the most one kettle can handle on the steepest grade.

-- Cheers Roger T.

The final days of the SPLR feature a 60-car mixed freight with 5 N&W diesels up front, a 22-car hopper drag with 2 locos, and two Santa Fe passenger trains... one is 11 cars, one is 17 cars each pulled with ABBA F units. The 60-car train is a bit overwhelming on the SPLR which is only about 14x20 outer perimeter, but the others are reasonable.

Andy

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OK, first, the obligatory non-serious replies:

2) Long enough

4) I thought size doesn't matter?!

And now, for my real answer:

For switching: 10 cars (40 & 50 foot), plus one loco and a caboose; as that's the length of my shortest passing siding.

For "I want to see a train run": As long as one engine can pull, which for most of my Atlas (HO) engines is about 25 cars (any longer and friction causes the engine to start spinning out on curves, plus much longer and the consist would be the entire length of visible mainline)

Chris Curren

So far, I have managed to boost my longest train up from 23 cars to

1. Power is an ABBA set of Alco F2's from P2k. The original set had powered A units and dummy B units. To break the 30 car limit I had to power the B units too. It helps to stick with the shorter '50's era 40' box cars, the shorter car keeps the train length down. As the train gets longer, things like equal weight in all cars and good coupler height, no low flying Kadee gladhands, become more important. With a long train you get interesting amounts of coupler slack action on starting and stopping.

David J. Starr

My next layout is going to be set primarily in the 1970s but I reserve the right to run steam, and in particular passenger trains from the

One thing I'm going to concentrate on is junction modeling. Rather than having one continuous main line, or one point-to-point line, I'm going to model at least two major junctions that in real life are about 3 miles apart - Hammond Tower and Osborn Tower. This will mean main line operations on N&W (double track), Erie Lackawanna (double track), NYC and IHB - double track Gibson to Osborn and south, and triple track at Hammond, plus the L&N (Monon) which also saw C&O runs. The operations detail will mainly be between Gibson and Osborn with the IHB and N&W interchange, but the N&W mains (both) will have loopbacks for continuous running. The EL and L&N mains will be mainly just loops with staging. I will have a decent amount of space but designing this to fit a rectangular area will be a challenge, especially the loopbacks which will require multiple 180-degree turns, and they have to be far enough away from the junctions to not spoil the look there.

Once I get settled and have some exact dimensions (I know it's approximately 33'x60') then I can start doodling. Also need to take out a wall, and build a bathroom, and the bathroom may well be a run-through :-)

Andy

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Talk about "Station Stops".

'No flushing in the station'.

"Passengers will please refrain . . . ."

And one of these days I'll build a steamer that can pull as much as a diesel...

and in particular passenger trains from the

Open auto racks. Yeah. I have a kit for one, but it's waiting for affordable auto's to fill it with. The HO autos at Charles Ro are a bit pricey, I figure it would cost $30 get a full load. There ought to be a child's toy car in HO (or close to HO) scale for less. Need to do some toy store scrounging....

David J. Starr

In addition to the cost, the biggest problem is availability. There are virtually no 1:87 autos which are appropriate for an auto rack load of the mid 1970s. Yeah, I know about those Dodges - 78 Monacos I think. That's about it.

Andy

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I saw Dosdges and DeSotos...but an auto rack full of Borgwards would be kind of cool...

Jeff Sc. DDR, Ga.

snipped-for-privacy@charter.net wrote:

E K O - S P A I N: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- These models first appeared in France in the 1960s. The range was later sold to EKO of Spain. EKO produce various packs of car kits, selected from the range listed below for particular nations. The models are fairly crude, normally consisting of plastic body, transparent plastic glazing, a silver underpart including bumpers and (standard) plastic wheels on metal axles. The bodies generally seem to be made in a two part mould with no undertaper/tumble-home, which often spoils the vehicle's appearance. The chassis often don't line up properly and the wheels are usually set wrongly and give the models a poor appearance. Some models are not even worthy of consideration, eg the Volkswagen 1200 while others such as the Alfa Romeo are quite reasonable. Where an alternative model exists from another manufacturer, I would have no hesitation in recommending that alternative, in most cases. For many, or most of the models however, there is nothing else available, so these models can be used as a starting point.

Herpa, in particular, make wheel sets that are reasonably suited to the European vehicles. Evergreen styrene strip of various small dimensions can be used to fill the chassis axle slots to suit the smaller diameter Herpa axles and at the same time correct any misalignments. Careful filing at the bottom of the bodies can restore the lower curves where required. The V.W. Karmann-Ghia eventually turned out to be an excellent model after filing to shape, painting, rewheeling and detailing. The V.W. 1500 Sedan also turned out well. I fitted Roco V.W. 1600 wheelsets to my model. This creates the original version, not available elsewhere. The Austin/Morris Mini looked to be unusable, as it is quite distorted at the rear. The problem stems from the fact that the body peg at the rear that is supposed to hold the body and chassis together has been moved rearwards to clear the rear axle. I cut a narrow "V" behind each rear wheel and up the rear side seam with a razor saw so that I could pull the lower rear panel inward. This required the removal of the fixing pin and alterations to the glazing and chassis. The finished vehicle is most definitely an HO Mini, good enough for a middle distance layout model if not to a showcase standard. The vintage car series also vary in standard - the Citroen 5 CV/Opel makes up into a delightful model but, the Berlin Bus is terrible and the Ford Model T seems quite distorted. The four vehicles from the 1930s make up into really nice vehicles, ideal for a European wartime or prewar railway layout. I bought a pack of US vehicles - I'm not really well aquainted with the originals beyond photos in books/magazines but they look perhaps better proportioned than the European models. The wheels, which are the same as on the European models, look rediculously small and the grills and bumpers are quite plasticy. I found that some filing to match the grill edges to the body cutouts helped the overall appearance. I have to admit to being at a loss to find suitable wheels as the Herpa road vehicle pack types are too small while the modern racing pack types are low profile and so date the vehicle to the present day. In summary, if you consider these vehicles only as a basis from which to create models and expect to throw away about half the models as unusable - they are very cheap, particularly in the multiple kit packs! The second catalogue number X.. is the AHM listing taken from MR Feb.1963. Greg.P. Fidelity/10 As purchased. Reworked Eko 111001 X95 Deutsche Double deck bus. 1925. 2 5 Eko 111002 X37 Deutsche Orix Berliner Taxi. 1907. 5 7 Eko 111003 X43 France Le Zebre. 1907. 4 5 Eko 111004 X68 U.S.A. Ford Model T. 1916. 3 4 Eko 111005 X50 Deutsche Opel. } 1923. 5 8 Eko 111005 X50 France Citroen 5 CV. } 1923. 5 8 Eko 111006 X85 U.K. Rolls Royce Phantom. 1920 4 6 Eko 111007 X40 Spain Hispano Suissa. 1905. 4 6 Eko 111008 X52 U.S.A. Studebaker Big Six. 1916. 5 6 Eko 111009 X93 Italy FIAT Balilla. 1934. 6 7 Eko 111010 France Citroen 11 Ligero. 1936. 5 7 Eko 111011 Spain Bugatti Typ 57. 1937. Eko 111012 Italy Lancia Aprilla. 1938.

Eko 2001 X38 Deutsche V.W. 1200. 1960 3 4 Eko 2002 Deutsche BMW 501. 1960 Eko 2003 Deutsche Mercedes Benz 300. 1954 6 7 Eko 2004 Deutsche Opel Kapitan. 1954 6 7 Eko 2005 France Renault 750. 1954 4 5 Eko 2006 Spain FIAT/Seat 1400. 1950s 5 7 Eko 2007 Deutsche DKW Pickup. 1950s Eko 2008 X57 U.S.A. Jeep Forward Control pickup. 1960s Eko 2009 Deutsche V.W. 1200 Convertible. 1960 2 4 Eko 2010 Deutsche Mercedes Benz 190SL. open. 1958 4 Eko 2011 Deutsche Mercedes Benz 190SL. closed. 1958 4 Eko (2012) Eko (2013) Eko 2014 Spain Ford flatbed with canvas top. 1950s 6 Eko (2015) Eko 2016 Deutsche Maigrus flatbed with canvas top. 1950s 6 Eko 2017 Spain Ford Thames Cola truck. 1950s 7 Eko 2018 Deutsche Magirus Cola truck. 1950s 7 Eko 2019 Deutsche Magirus Fire ladder truck. 1950s 7 Eko 2020 Spain Ford Thames Tank truck. 1950s Eko 2021 France Citroen 2 CV. 1950s Eko 2022 Camping caravan. 1950s 4 7 Eko 2023 Deutsche Mercedes Benz Artic car carrier. 1960s Eko 2024 Deutsche Magirus Tank truck. 1950s Eko 2025 X20 France Renault Dauphine. 1955 3 4 Eko 2026 X41 U.S.A. Jeep. 1960s 3 Eko 2027 France Citroen DS 19. 1960s Eko 2028 Deutsche Ford Panel van. 1960 7 Eko 2029 Deutsche Ford Ambulance. 1960 Eko 2030 Deutsche Ford Microbus. 1960 Eko 2031 Italy FIAT 600 Multipla. 1960 Eko 2032 Spain FIAT/Seat 1400C. (FIAT Crusader) 1965 Eko 2033 U.K. Landrover SWB 1960 4 Eko 2034 France Citroen 2 CV van. 1960 6 Eko 2035 Italy FIAT 1800 Station Wagon. 1965 5 Eko 2036 Italy FIAT 600. 1955 Eko 2037 Spain FIAT/Seat 1400 Panel van. 1950s. Eko 2038 U.S.A. Lincoln Continental. 1960s. 6 Eko 2039 Deutsche Opel Reckord. 1960s. Eko 2040 Deutsche Opel Reckord Caravan. Station wagn.1960s Eko 2041 Italy FIAT 1800 Ambulance. 1965 Eko 2042 U.S.A. De Soto Diplomat. 1957. 6 Eko 2043 U.S.A. Plymouth Suburban. 1958 Eko 2044 U.S.A. Ford Thunderbird. 1960 5 Eko 2045 U.S.A. Chevrolet El Camino. 1970 7 Eko 2046 Deutsche Mercedes Benz Artic 5 barrel. 1960s Eko 2047 France Renault 4-L. 1970 Eko 2048 France Citroen Ami. 1975 Eko 2049 X36 Deutsche Mercedes Benz F1 r/car. 300 SLR. 1953. Eko 2050 France Simca 1000. 1965 5 Eko 2051 France Renault Floride. 1965 5 8 Eko 2052 Boat and Trailer. 1960 Eko 2053 Cabin boat and trailer. 1960 Eko 2054 U.S.A. De Soto with boat. 1957 6 Eko 2055 U.S.A. Plymouth Suburban with boat. 1958 Eko 2056 U.S.A. GMC 6x4 Flatbed. 1945 Eko 2057 U.S.A. GMC 6x4 flatbed with canvas top. 1945 Eko 2058 U.S.A. GMC 6x4 Tank truck. 1945 Eko 2059 France Citroen DS 19 with caravan. 1960s Eko 2060 Italy FIAT 1800 S/W with caravan. 1965 Eko 2061 Deutsche V.W. 1200 with caravan. 1960 3 Eko 2062 Italy FIAT 850 1965 Eko 2063 U.S.A. Dodge Dart. 1965 6 Eko 2064 France Renault R8. 1965. 4 7 Eko 2065 Italy FIAT 124. 1970 Eko 2066 Spain Pegaso Comet truck canvas top. 1960 8 Eko 2067 Spain Box truck Barreios. 1960s Eko 2068 Deutsche Mercedes Benz Truck and Trailer. 1960s Eko 2069 France Dump truck. 1970 8 Eko 2070 X92 U.S.A. Studebaker Hawk. 1962 Eko 2071 U.K. Ford Zephyr Mk3. 1965 Eko 2072 Deutsche Opel Kadet. 1970. Eko 2073 X89 U.S.A. Ford Comet. 1962 Eko 2074 X58 Deutsche Mercedes Benz 220. 1960s 5 Eko 2075 U.S.A. Studebaker Avanti. 1960s. Eko 2076 France Citroen DS 19 Break. 1960s Eko 2077 U.K. Rover 3L. 1960 4 Eko 2078 X61 U.S.A. Jeep Wagon. 1960 Eko 2079 X56 U.S.A. Ford Falcon. 1970 Eko 2080 Deutsche V.W. 1500. 1965 4 7 Eko 2081 Nederland DAF. 1965 Eko 2082 Deutsche BMW 700 Coupe. 1960 3 5 Eko 2083 Sweden SAAB 96. 1970 Eko 2084 Sweden Volvo 1800 Sport. 1970 Eko 2085 U.K. Ford 315 Consul. 1965 Eko 2086 U.K. Construction crane. 2a. 1960s 5 Eko 2087 France Unic Dump truck. 1960s 7 Eko 2088 X51 Deutsche Mercedes Benz Microbus. 1960s Eko 2089 U.K. Morris Mini. 1960s 2 5 Eko 2090 U.K. Morris Van. Lovan. 1950s 4 7 Eko 2091 U.K. Ford Thames Trader flat bed.load. 1950s 6 Eko 2092 Spain Pegaso Delivery truck. 1960s 7 Eko 2093 Spain Pegaso Fire Truck. 1960s Eko 2094 Spain Pegaso Tank truck. 1960s Eko 2095 Spain Pegaso Artic Tank truck. 1960s Eko 2096 Spain Pegaso Artic cement truck. 1960s Eko 2097 Spain Pegaso Fire ladder truck. 1960s Eko 2098 X81 U.K. Jaguar E Type. 1960s Wiking. Eko 2099 X83 Deutsche V.W. Karmann Ghia. 1960s 4 7 Eko 2100 U.K. Jaguar D Type. 1954 Eko 2101 X62 U.K. MG A. 1600. 1958 Eko 2102 Spain Pegaso Bus. 1960s 7 Eko 2103 France Unic Cement mixer. 1960s Eko 2104 Spain Pegaso Cement mixer. 1960s Eko 2105 X45 Italy Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint. 1960s 4 7 Eko 2106 X76 U.K. Jaguar Mk 9. 1950s Eko 2107 X79 U.K. Ford Anglia. 1960 Eko 2108 Italy FIAT 1800. 1965 Eko 2109 Deutsche Borgward Isabella. 1950s Wiking Eko 2110 U.K. London Double decker bus. 1950s Eko 2111 U.K. Antar tank transporter. 1950 4 Eko 2112 U.S.A. Caterpillar Scraper. 1955 Eko 2113 Spain Pala Excavator. 1960 Eko 2114 Deutsche Hanomag Farm tractor. 1950s Eko 2115 Spain Pegaso Artic. car transport. 1960s Eko 2116 X55 U.K. Landrover Safari. 1960s 4 Eko 2117 France Chausson Bus. 1950s 7 Eko 2118 France Unic Titan Artic with load. 1960s Eko 2119 U.K. Ford Thames flatbed. 1950s Eko 2120 U.K. Ford Thames Cola. 1950s Eko (2121) Eko 2122 France Sava Butane delivery truck. 1960 Eko 2123 France Sava rubbish truck. 1960 Eko 2124 Czech. Skoda Octavia Coupe. 1955 Eko 2125 France Berliet HD Dump truck. 1960s Eko 2126 Spain Pegaso Articulated truck+box trail.1960s Eko X47 U.S.A. Studebaker Lark IV. Eko X18 U.S.A. Ford Edsel Convertable. Eko X64 U.S.A. Ford Galaxie. Eko X86 U.S.A. Cadillac.

Eko 2200 Civilian Figure series. 1960s Eko 4000 Military Vehicle series. 1960s Eko 4500 Military Figure series. 1960s

Regards, Greg.P.

Sorry, Greg, but I can't justify giving up my use of crude, clumsy, cheap models for more prototypical and accurate models that let me model car transport as the real railroads would...the limitations of more prototyoical models, the expense involved in changing my fleet of autos, and the skills I have developed over the years in adapting these models out of the blister pack to my railroad...

Sorry, couldn't help myself. It was a really useful list - thanks!

Jeff Sc. Poke, Ga.

A long time (30 years) ago I had a layout in the cellar of my home that that had two levels of a shelf layout around the walls of an inside 20 foot by 40 foot ranch home. The mainline on the system was about 200 feet long and 100 plus car trains could be run in both directions.

Dave Decker

Carter Braxt> I usually run about a dozen freight cars behind my steamer because anything

I too have found the FAs to be way underpowered. How much has to do with the little belt drive fan you can't see turning? Anyone ever cut those things loose? Does it help?

Greg

Greg Forestieri wrote:

It's not a matter of under powered. The P2k Alcos have enough motor power to spin the wheels, and that's all the power a locomotive needs. To get more tractive effort, you have to make the locomotive heavier so it has more traction. The P2k is reasonably well ballasted although I daresay you could cram a few more ounces in somewhere. With just two powered units something around 30 cars was all they could haul up the ruling grade without wheel spin. Powering the two B units doubled my tractive effort. Now my maximum train length is limited by the number of cars I have to couple up. I only have 48 boxcars so that's my longest train right now. Of course I have a some kits yet to build... As the train grows longer you have to pay more attention to wheel gaging, car weighting, coupler height, free swiveling trucks, all those little things that keep the train on the track. A car in a long train has more force on its couplers trying to pull it off the track. So each car has to be closer to perfect in long trains than in short ones. And, the odds of a single car having a defect is proportional to the number of cars. As you add more and more cars, the odds of one car being underweight, out of gage, low flying coupler, etc grows greater and greater. It only takes one car to cause a derailment. Now, one of my next projects is a big heavy steamer that can pull as hard as just a pair of diesels... Right now my heaviest steam is a Mantua Pacific which is only good for 15 milk cars over the ruling grade. Bowser, think Bowser, anything big, maybe even a PRR only prototype...

David J. Starr

Agree - my thought was poorly stated.

This is about the performance I'm seeing. My grade is 2% and I get about 20 cars before wheel spin sets in with a pair of powered units. Nice units, they just spin quickly. I'm going to cram some lead somewhere in there...

There is something about the Alco FA that just appeals to me. The squared off nose is handsome, and I dare say was easier to fabricate from sheet metal than the GM bulldog nose with its strong compound curves. I started out with an AA pair of powered units. Over time with some train show and RMR shopping I acquired a pair of dummy B units giving me an ABBA consist, which looks very nice on the point of a long train. It looks like overkill with only a dozen cars, but once you get up beyond a couple a dozen cars, it looks impressive. Then a pair of A units (custom painted for CNR) turned up at the club's annual show for a reasonable price. I bought them, switched the drives under the B units and then resold the CNR painted shells as dummy A units. Leaving me with an ABBA set all units powered. Other than a kit bashed Pacific, its my favorite motive power. Pulls more than the Pacific....

David J. Starr

I am designing my layout to handle up to 25ft lengths. Being a bridge-route & all, with a main-line of several hundred feet, I dont think anything much longer need apply, well apart from the odd 'Grain or Coal special' which would be just for fun. A staging yard 36ft long is my limit anyway, by choice not room available.

My preference for trains run along the lines of European passenger service. For my N layout, currently in design stage, (house remodelling to do first) I plan two have two or three stations about 6' long, and a 'main' station about 12' feet long, with enough track in between to actually give the feeling of travel. As European passengers are shorter than North American freights, length isn't as important. For my tastes, I need the ability to have a number of different routes for passenger/express service. That and a few thousand for switches alone.

Carolyn