Module Standards for HO scale, re: T-nuts

I was looking for NMRA Standards for HO scale modules and found several sites with the information. One thing bothers me though, and that is the method of adjusting the height of
the tables. The drawings called out 1/4" or 5/16" hex-cap screws (bolts) and T-nuts.
The T-nuts are inserted in the bottom end of the leg and the cap screw is threaded into that.
Very poor design. In fact, it doesn't even deserve to be called a "design".
There is nothing to keep the T-nut stuck into the leg except the weight of the table on it. I will bet that most people have been plagued with the T-nuts falling out all the time while transporting and setting up / knocking down the modules. T-nuts are meant to have a threaded fastener driven into them from the end OPPOSITE the end or side where they are inserted. They are not meant to be self-securing. Using T-nuts as shown in the spec sheets is abominable engineering. In fact, it is not even engineering at all. It is hack-work.
There is a device engineered for the task of constructing adjustable height legs that is called a threaded insert. Actually it has more than one use, but it is the most perfect thing for the purpose here. The companion to the threaded insert is the fixed or swivel foot. The threaded insert is a piece of metal with wood screw threads on the outside and nachine screw threads on the inside. For example: drill a hole 11/16 in the center of the leg and screw the threaded insert into it. On the ones I buy, this is done with an Allen wrench. Support the table by inserting a foot with a 3/8 machine screw thread into the insert. The foot, which has approximately 2 square inches of weight distribution area as oposed to the 1/4 inch area of a cap screw, has an adjusting hex at the bottom and a jamb-nut to secure against the bottom of the threaded insert once you have the adjustment fixed. A most elegant and effective solution that is rock-solid and stable. Once you have the jamb-nut tight nothing will change until YOU change it.
Threaded inserets are not usually sold at places like Home Depot, but sometimes you can find them there. A better bet is a good hardware store such as ACE or Tru-Value. Independent hardware, home supply and farm supply stores will often have several sizes in stock along with the companion feet. Look for inserts that have a 1/4-20, 5/16-18 or a 3/8-16 internal thread and get the correct companion feet.
Here is an index of SAE threads:
COARSE: http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandards/screws/screwunc.cfm
FINE: http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandards/screws/screwunf.cfm
Trash the T-nut! Do it right.
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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:11:53 GMT, Froggy@The Pond.com wrote:

Whilst I see your point about there being better engineered solutions, out group has used this method for at least 10 years now on all our porable layouts and we have never had a nut fall out yet. Driling the mounting hole so its a tight fit and then hammering the nut in seems to hold it very tightly.
Regards,
Stuart
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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:51:56 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.REMOVE.THIS.com (Stuart D.) wrote:

Eeeekk.Gasp!
I can't believe you actually put that in print! Aaaaaakkkk! Oh, 'Lizibeth, I'm coming home honey (clutches left side of chest and staggers to couch))
.............F> Aghast, GA.
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staggers to

Oh dear.
Then you won't want to know my leg height adjuster is a 3" x 3/8" coach screw screwed into a drilled hole in the bottom of the leg and adjusted with my trusty shifter? No? Thought not. :)
Steve Empirical Engineering, NSW
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Ohhh, the pain........
..............F> Dr Smith, GA
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"My trusty Shifter"
Hmmmmm............. I am trying to imagine what a shifter (Australian) is in this context. Oh, I imagine its a wrench (English) of some kind, but one can never be perfectly certain of these things when the other party is speaking a foreign language. Australia and the United States: two countries separated by a common language. I like that, I think I'll publish it in my book of quotes.
I guess we will get the equivalent English word for a "shifter", but I am almost afraid to ask. Please don't tell us that it is Australian for "slip-joint pliers" I don't think I could stand the shock!
.............F> Angst, GA.
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wrote:

coach
adjusted with

context.
be perfectly

language.
language.
I am almost

"slip-joint pliers"

I don't know if "shifter" is the Australian term for what we in the US call a "wrench," but isn't "spanner" the UK term for "wrench?" -- Bill McC.
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Froggy@The wrote:

A "shifter" is a shifting spanner.
An adjustable wrench, in other words.
(Awful bloody things.)
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Mark Newton wrote:

knuckle buster
--
Steve Caple

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Steve Caple wrote:
>> A "shifter" is a shifting spanner. >> >> An adjustable wrench, in other words. > > knuckle buster
A device good only for burring the flats on nuts or bolt heads.
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----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 2:11 AM Subject: Re: Module Standards for HO scale, re: T-nuts

Let me spring to the defence of the shifter here. If I was working on cars? No way. (and I don't work on cars anymore). Anything that was run up tight. No.
But! To adjust aforementioned layout legs? For my wife to release/tighten her mower handle? Sure thing. Love 'em. Everything has it's place! Reminds me of the time my wife asked for a little tool set with screwdriver, plier, tape, hammer in it. She got one for a few Christmas's back, a $19.99 K-Mart special in a green plastic case. That rotten thing is probably the most used tool set in the Magee residence - and I have a lifetime collection of quality carpentry and mechanical tools in the garage!
Steve
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----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: Re: Module Standards for HO scale, re: T-nuts
wrote:

with
perfectly
language.
language.
Shifting spanner, = buggered if I know in US. Adjustable wrench?

almost
pliers"
"slip-joint pliers" That's easy - multigrips! Sometimes pipe wrench.
Now, about drills and drill bits.. :)
Steve Mechanically-challenged, NSW
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OK, repeat after me: A drill motor is something you use to drive a drill.
A drill is a tool that is used to cut, or bore, a hole in a piece of material known as "the workpiece"
A bit is a type of cutting tool that is used in a brace or a router. There are also a few other kinds of bits such as Forstner bits and the bit you put in a horse's mouth, but.........
there is no such tool as a drill bit.
Vegemite is the stuff which you reward yourself for successfully completing this lesson <G> I think I will ring-off and go get myself some right now.
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completing this

Cool. Now I understand. Can we now also discuss Kadee glad hands and sound decoders? :)
BTW, in 1960's, I flew regularly on Viscounts and Electras before the 727's arrived. Couldn't believe the difference! So quiet and smooth! (The 727, I refer to!) Missed out on flying in the Super Constellation, though - now that plane I liked! Saved Qantas' arse. Ah, memories.
Steve Old Folks Home, NSW
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ANYTHING you want to thrash out is fine just so long as it's not politics. That one is a complete waste of time and resources for everybody.
I want to know what is going to happen to all the big electric locos now that electrification is a goner. Surely some of them are going to be stored and/or saved? I don't suppose it's possible to ever run them again, but it sure would be nice to keep a couple of them around

Three of the airlines that served my hometown had turbo-props. Capital had Viscounts, Eastern and National flew Electras. All three had Constellations. National also had DC-7s. I always tried to schedule any trips that I took on one of these types as I did not care for riding the jets. I did like to ride the Caravelle, and did so frequently when I had to go somewhere on United, but only after the Viscount was retired from the route. The Constellations did not operate alongside the new Electras for very long and were retired from my area in the early '60s. The last time I rode a Constellation was about 1962. The last time I rode a DC-7 was 1967. That one I remember quite clearly as we were supposed to have had a Convair 880, but engine problems grounded the plane and a DC-7 was substituted. It was almost the last flight for the DC-7 as well. I think the last Electra I rode in was shortly thereafter; maybe somewhere around 1971 or '72.
Once I no longer had a choice, I learned to tolerate the jets, but I still miss not seeing the big whirling disc of the propeller and the engines nodding in their mounts as the machine goes through its routines. I did make a point of riding in Convair 880s and 990s, which were some of the rarest of US jets. I can only remember American, Delta, Northeast TWA as having any Convairs. Alaska got a couple secondhand.
It's somewhat ironic, isn't it, that the last time I fired a steam locomotive was less than ten years ago......AND......that I could go back to doing it this afternoon if I so desired<VBG>
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Froggy@The wrote: > > ANYTHING you want to thrash out is fine just so long as it's not > politics. That one is a complete waste of time and resources for > everybody. > > I want to know what is going to happen to all the big electric locos > now that electrification is a goner. Surely some of them are going to > be stored and/or saved? I don't suppose it's possible to ever run > them again, but it sure would be nice to keep a couple of them around
Froggy, are you referring to the electric locos here in NSW? A few examples of both 46 and 86 class locos have been preserved in running order, and are available for use within the CityRail electrified network. The remainder are apparently stored at Broken Hill if my sources are correct.
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Mark,
Not to go too far afield with this thread, but wasn't Broken Hill the location where the second Mad Max film ("The Road Warrior" in the US) was filmed?
Dieter Zakas
I'd swear a "T-nut" was a fanatic of what is fundamentally rusty water.
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Hzakas wrote:
> Not to go too far afield with this thread, but wasn't Broken Hill the > location where the second Mad Max film ("The Road Warrior" in the US) > was filmed?
Dieter, I have never seen any film in the Mad Max franchise, so I can't answer your question. But given that many movies are filmed in that area, it is entirely possible. It is certainly desolate enough... :-)
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Correct. Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia.
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:00:40 +1000, Mark Newton
wrote:

Ya, I know that a few are at Broken Hill, but what of the 85s. What a GREAT machine. Pity to see them lost as were some of our finer efforts. I would really like to have a model of an 85, several of them actually to make a two or three unit consist.
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