I've seen some really low prices on this loco now that Rivarossi has been bought out. Does anyone own one, and if so, could you tell me if there is anything egregiously wrong with it?
Also, I do believe it's DCC-ready, with an 8-pin NMRA socket, right?
DCC Models ( snipped-for-privacy@unpublished.com) wrote: : I've seen some really low prices on this loco now that Rivarossi has been
Where have you seen these low prices? What do you consider "low"?
: bought out. Does anyone own one, and if so, could you tell me if there is : anything egregiously wrong with it?
I did own one(the second iteration; with the small flange wheels). It ran OK, a little noisy, with a very, very slight "gallop". Bought mine for $75. Sold it when I moved from steam to diesel.
: Also, I do believe it's DCC-ready, with an 8-pin NMRA socket, right?
The one I had did NOT, bought not sure about the later versions.
Nothing major is wrong with the two-truck version. It's one of the best things Rivarossi ever did. It's a model of a large two truck Heisler. Detail is a bit 'heavy' by modern standards (it's like a 25 years old design). It can benefit from a better motor (like MANY other model locos), and some add-on detail. Still, it's a decent model.
The 3-truck has substantial errors, as they only added the (driven) third truck ("tender", actually just a water tank) to the standard two-truck loco. This is NOT correct, as the real 3-truck Heislers carried only fuel on the loco, and the water in the tank. Thus the bunker on the model is too large for a three truck machine. The truck spacing is thus also 'off'. It's NOT awful, but noticeable.
Dan Mitchell ============
TrainWorld has them for $89.99, and the lowest price I've seen in an eBay store is $125.
They ALWAYS had PR25 flanges from day one.
: > DCC Models ( snipped-for-privacy@unpublished.com) wrote: : > : I've seen some really low prices on this loco now that Rivarossi has been : > : > Where have you seen these low prices? What do you consider "low"? : > : > : bought out. Does anyone own one, and if so, could you tell me if there is : > : anything egregiously wrong with it? : > : > I did own one(the second iteration; with the small flange wheels). It ran : > OK, a little noisy, with a very, very slight "gallop". Bought mine for : > $75. Sold it when I moved from steam to diesel. : > : > : Also, I do believe it's DCC-ready, with an 8-pin NMRA socket, right? : > : > The one I had did NOT, bought not sure about the later versions.
: They ALWAYS had PR25 flanges from day one. : -- : Brian Ehni
Yep, you're right. I found a box for it and it was an AHM box, so it must have been off the first run. $89.99 is a heck of a price; tempting...might have to get a couple. With a Shay or two and a Climax I could easily be talked back into the steam era....
I've always liked geared steam. I've got two of the older Heisler version; one two truck and one three truck, plus a couple of Shays and a Climax on it way.
"DCC Models" wrote in news:5GIEd.200044$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
I have the two=truck version. It is quite nice, but a bear to get into for lubrication. Fortunately, mine came with about the best set of instructions on how to strip down the model that I have seen from a loco manufacturer, but it is still a PITA. Do be careful of some of the small parts that have to be removed to take it apart. They are easy to lose. Also, there is a kind of a bridge that holds the back-up light that is a real nuisance to get in place when you reassemble the thing. Mine had a standard NMRA 8-pin plug, but you need a small decoder. I used a Digitrax DZ143 with a short harness, and put the decoder in the cab, just above the motor. That is not the best place, but it is about the only place where there is room. I bought mine about a year ago. On the whole, it has been a better runner than a couple of my Bachmann Spectrums. :-( And, if you want a Heisler, it is the only game in town, except for some old PFM imports that may be on the used market.
NOT true, but even the earlier ones did fall into the time frame when Rivarossi had switched to SMALLER (perhaps 0.032", NOT RP-25) flanges. The wheel profile was also different than RP-25, with NO fillet between the tread and flange. A BIG improvement, though, over the pizza-cutter giant flanges of earlier years. These were pretty useable on all but the smallest track sizes.
Dan Mitchell ============
On the whole, it has been a better runner
Actually, PFM did several runs of their 2-truck Heislers, in two distinctly different forms (sizes), and with a few variations of the larger one.
Westside Models also did the much smaller, and more typical, Westside Lumber Co. 2-truck Heisler.
And somebody (Overland Models or Key) did a nice model of the Meadow River (now Cass) 3-truck Heisler. This is the best Heisler model yet made in HO.
Dan Mitchell ============
Yeah, schlepping those double-stacks on down the main . . .
Modeling HO geared steam on a less-than-brass budget is pretty easy to do today. Rivarossi made the Heislers (decent), Bachmann makes their Shay (excellent) and now the Climax (reportedly also excellent).
MDC makes a Shay also (in several variations), but it's not nearly as nice as the Bachmann. It's a somewhat different type Shay, so there's room for both. These take a lot of TLC to get 'right, but I've seen it done. It's not a bad loco, just a 'tinkerer's delight' (or nightmare?)!
Now there's even the Atlas Shay in N gauge.
Dan Mitchell ============
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote
nightmare?)!
I second your positive view of the MDC Shay. Although a very noisy loco, it can be made to operate smoothly over a wide range of speeds with fair pulling power. Its largest failing was the tendency of the two plastic pieces comprising each truck to separate. I ended up wiring these together and have had no problems in over twenty years. The MDC "climax" is no where near as realistic in appearrance. However, take a look if you can at MR for December, 1982. Gregory G. Keutzer shows some simple modifications which lead, IMHO, to an engine strongly reminiscent of certain Dunkirks I've seen. While the end product still has completely inappropriate trucks, I find it to be a fine addition to a collection of inexpensive geared locos. I've also recently purchased a Rivarossi Heisler. Only good things to report so far. I particularly like its fine low speed performance. A Bachmann climax is also on the list of planned purchases. Hmm, perhaps Father's Day would be about right? Best wishes. Jerry
My mistake. Thinking back on it, they announced they would run on code 70 track, and did! May not have been RP-25 profile, but the flanges were not pizza cutter as you say, and they were rounded, not sharp.
I've been working on a couple using that article as a basis. If I ever get them finished I'll put up some pictures on my website.
But your right in that those modifications make a LOT of difference in the appearance.
I see mine has dropped off the backorder at Walthers, so I should be getting it soon; I'll report on it as soon as I can try it out.
Most of the problems with the MDC Shays that I've seen center on their electrical pick up. The spring contacts intended to provide this contact are too short, lack sufficient travel, and apply too much pressure (if an at all). There is a whole book published on ways to improve this model. THAT says plenty about it's problems, and also that is it WORTH fixing.
The MDC so-called 'Climax" is so far removed from reality that I didn't even consider it worthy of mention. It's just their box cab Diesel with a fantasy steam loco shell applied. While you may be right that it can be cobbled up to resemble some OTHER models of geared steam, it's an TERRIBLE likeness of a "Class A" Climax. To start with, it's WAY too big for HO scale. Perhaps it could be made to look better in "S" or "O" scales, with LOTS of work.
Dan Mitchell ============
I can take no exception with your evaluation of the MCD product per se. You noted my use of quotation marks around climax. I think we agree, a climax it aint! OTOH these kits usually sell for well under twenty dollars on e-bay and the procedures outlined in the Keutzer article are far from costly or demanding. For someone desiring a simple, inexpensive entry into an HO geared loco, I do not believe this route should be dismissed out-of-hand. Like so much else in the hobby, its a personal matter of what is good enough for your own railroad (and I'll still be the first to admit that the Diesel trucks are outlandish). Best regards. Jerry
I have one of these that I have been working on. I don't have a layout yet, but plan on a logging layout. I have a heisler and a shay. I plan on using the "climax" to pull an excursion or tourist train ;-)
On a side note, anyone know of a source for better gears for this model? The plastic gearbox leaves alot to be desired.
Charles Perry P.E.
There isn't any problem with the gearbox, it's the fact that the gears on the axles have concentricity problems. This can be reduced somewhat, the effects, not the problem, by reaming the end bushings on the trucks .003 to .005 inch bigger. The flywheel was also machined "off the rough", and balanced is what it isn't. Turning just enough off to bring it to concentric with the stub shafts would probably help, but if anyone is going to do that, making a new flywheel from SS or something else heavy would be a better option. Just reaming out the axle bushings freed things enough that I can set mine to go as little as 4 inches in one minute, but I think it should be able to do better, just haven't decided what to work on next. The finish on the worm gears isn't as good as it could be, and they're dry, but until the concentricity (PLRO) is taken care of, the rest doesn't make too much sense. (Fix the main problem first, then go after the details.) A little bit of strip brass in the right places will make the trucks look a little better, but I agree, that would have been one big Climax A.
Greybeard.
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