Very special web site out of shape

From an ad in Model Railoader, I went to this website to look at their product line - which looks interesting, if I could see it:
http://www.specialshapes.com /
But as I told them, I couldn't get past the first page - no action from the menu choices:
"Win XP Pro, Firefox 0.9.2 - if I click on, for example, Brass Shapes, I see a message "Done" and something about an ASP file - but no data. Is this an ASP feature? "
in reply snipped-for-privacy@aol.com said the following:

To which my response is:
That is an incredibly lame response. In fact, it means that your web master is using non-standard HTML, either from ignorance or laziness.
Many people are switching to Mozilla/Firefox precisely because the "standard" browser, Internet Explorer, is less capable and has more security vulnerabilities. Indeed, many of the security vulnerabilities attributed to Windows are more precisely attributable to IE and to Outlook.
Please get a better source for answers than Microsoft spin doctors.
I urge other Mozilla / Firefox / Netscape / Opera users to tell them the same.
--
Steve Caple

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It's halfway working with my preferred browser, Netscape 7.2 I get past the first page but it freezes on the next layer in.
Steve Caple wrote:

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I got the same result with Firefox/0.9.3. With IE, the next box opens, but is blank.
Ron McF
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What verson of IE? I'm using IE6 and I seem to be getting all of the pages...
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but
I'm also using IE6. I just tried it again with IE6, and initially I got the same blank boxes, but after waiting for a short time (~ 10 seconds or so) it worked. It looks like it's just a bit hit and miss, or else dreadfully slow.
With Firefox, I still get none of the product data.
Ron
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:22:21 -0800, Steve Caple

    A better thing still would be to get firefox and the other "non standard" browsers compatible with layers, etc. That way they could get the content that MS users get with any perceived "improvements" their browser offers.

    And they will not listen as you are far from the majority. MS is not going away. If anything it is expanding and unless other companies follow their standards they will be left behind. It is like DCC, the old days had several "standards" all incompatible so DCC struggled. As soon as the majority started supporting a single standard, DCC took off. The same goes for browsers,. One follows the leader or becomes Astrac.
                                cat (not fond of MS but a realist)
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Were I a programmer working on a browser, I think I would be very very reluctant to add in features that have been proven time and again to be nothing more than security leaks. Most of the "features" that micro$oft offers, when I was using that crap, were disabled, and I had no hijacks, very few popups, but still had to maintain other programs to avoid spyware. There were sites that came up blank, links that didn't go anywhere, but I just figured that those vendors didn't want to do business with me.

Windows systems may be the top dog right now, but as more and more users find how incapable the m$ systems are, and switch to either Unix or Linux, the real "high end" of the users are being lost from m$. I have attempted to do 500 frame animations in POV-Ray in Win98, 2K, and XP, all with the same result, the BSD after frame 200 but before frame 240. That's roughly 6 hours of rendering time totally lost. Linux (SuSe 9.0 Pro) breezes through the entire 500 frames without a hitch.
Most of the so called "features" of windoze, IE, and (Hello, virus) OE are just things to allow advertisers to shove more ads in your face, I don't need them. If I have to run m$ to view a site, they don't want to show me what they have.
(Using Firefox, Thunderbird and Agent, Silly Willy and his infinite number of monkeys can kiss off.)
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errr...I think, at least by W3C definition, it's IE that's "non-standard"...
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cat wrote:

Bzzzzzzzzzzt! Wrong answer. See:
http://netscape.com.com/2100-9588_22-5435176.html
and
http://netscape.com.com/2100-9588_22-5463513.html
Stevert
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On 12/21/04 5:06 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@ifyoucan.net, "Stevert"

People think IE is on the rise, but if it's true, it's because LAZY programmers write their HTML for IE only!
--
Brian Ehni



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The site works fine for me. No problem at all, every link works (quickly). I'm using IE 6.0.2800
--
Brian

Why don't they make cat flavoured dog food?
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:07:50 GMT, Brian Smith wrote:

You have my sympathy, or at least a little of it.
--
Steve
Fox Spews . . . and idiots lap it up.
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Works with Netscape 4.5.
Steve Caple wrote:

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Steve Caple wrote:

Special Shapes is wrong; Firefox _is_ a standard browser. Firefox has no trouble at all with plain vanilla, standard XML sites. "Standard browsers" in brasshapes' reply means Internet Explorer, which I will not use - I'm paranoid about viruses and such, you see. :-)
I've noticed that websites built with MS's FrontPage are often very buggy. Since FrontPage comes with the OS, a lot of people use it, not realising they are producing crap. This may be Special Shapes' problem.
A lot of sites are overdesigned, many of them with Flash or other silly glitz that requires plugins. IMO, many people are still stuck in the erroneous notion that the web is an advertisinsg medium like TV, the newspaper, or a billboard. I don't know how many towns have, like mine, spent good money putting up a website, expecting that millions of people will see it, as if it were a billboard. That's not how the net works. You go to a website because you want to find something very specific - and a site that tells you that you have to jump through hoops to find what you want is one I am very unlikely to visit again. A site that annoys me with stupid tricks is one I will never visit again.
I can't figure why a business would pay someone to produce a website that a significant percentage of their customers can't access. And then blame the customer for not using the right software? What idiotic arrogance! It's not the cutsomer's role to adapt to the seller, it's the seller's role to adapt to the customer. I especially can't figure why a business would insist that you use Explorer. The more savvy of their customers will likely not be using IE, for security reasons.
Special Shapes needs to rethink its web presence.
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On 12/21/04 9:49 AM, in article sAXxd.13272$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com, "Wolf Kirchmeir"

Isn't it just the latest iteration of Mozilla (another standard browser)?
--
Brian Ehni



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Brian Paul Ehni wrote:

It's the browser client of Mozilla, which also includes an e-mail and a newsgroup client (which are available separately as Thunderbird.)
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No, Frontpage does not come with Windows. It is a separate program -- retailed either stand-alone, or bundled with Microsft Office.
--
Mark Mathu
The Green Bay Route: http://www.greenbayroute.com/ <-- built with Frontpage
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On 12/20/04 11:22 PM, in article 1izkfujab3eb3$. snipped-for-privacy@40tude.net, "Steve Caple"

Apple's Safari gets me to brass shapes, but no further. I recommend using the lowest common denominator: IE 6. Seems most web programmers are too lazy to code for anything else these days.
--
Brian Ehni



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Well, maybe not lazy but frugal. If 95% of users are browsing with IE are you going to spend 50% of your time coding for 5% of the marketshare? Not likely. (stolen from this very thread http://netscape.com.com/2100-9588_22-5435176.html ) It also depends on what the workload on your development team is. As far as ROI, spending even 25% of your development dollars on 6% of the audience may simply not be worth the effort. Esp if only 30% of any users actually use the website that result in any purchasing. And it realy depends on what kind of apps you are creating. You are not going to spend $500,000 on unix/c++ web design when you can do the same with $50,000 underVB/IE esp, for quick turnover apps. Big banking, heavy dataloads, etc... maybe Linux/C++. And then on top of that there is the local language culture as well. Maybe the development environment is heavy IE/VB as opposed to J2EE/Linux so VB could be cheaper.
Lazy? maybe but I doubt it. But it's just bad business to spend a lot of resources developing for such a small market. Unless you are targeting those people specifically then it's just not worth it. MS products do have a lot of faults. But if that's the primary market, you go with it. Anybody running OS/2 anymore?
Of course there are plenty of people who hate MS just because it's MS... If unix/Linux & Netscrape / Firefox... are so great, then you should realy be ticked off at it's publishers for not getting it into the market as a viable alternative to Windows. And to wake up the computer nerds: most users are not turned on by command prompts or archaic syntax. MS is big because it doesn't pander to the 'Simpsons comic book geek' kind of person. "Just get this damned machine going so I can do some work!!!" Sorry, that's the way I see it...
but what do I know. I'm a lazy aspx programmer. :-)
Private Sub Page_Unload(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles MyBase.Unload lblSalutation.text="By for now: Jb" End Sub
said the following:

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On 12/21/04 8:00 PM, in article Hy4yd.563649$%k.418385@pd7tw2no, "J

I SERIOUSLY doubt 95% of computer users use IE. Macintosh users ALONE make up 3 to 5% of the market. Then you have AOL users who generally do not know that, once online, they are free to use any browser they wish. There is also a very large base of Netscape users, etc., etc., etc.
Sorry, but I don't buy it.
--
Brian Ehni



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