eBay optimist of the month...

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Personally, I wouldn't give ten quid for it. The only use I can think of would be to stick a white face on the front and use it as an upmarket Thomas. There's another example on eBay curently going for well below the original cost price.

(kim)

Reply to
kim
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Bearing in mind that prices which were being asked (and recieved) for the last collectors club edition - Black Prince, it seems like a bargain. With only 503 other examples, it is a limited edition, and the market will determine the price, if loads are sold on, the price will fall, if few are available then the price will rise.

Reply to
John Ruddy

Ho ho for the absurd.... I'll paint my smokey joe purple and pink, sign the certificate as the locos owner so its a limited edition of one.

Simon

Reply to
simon

In case you arn't aware, the livery is protypical - it was carried by the loco in preservation. Just as the 9F 92203 was only called 'Black Prince' in preservation.

Reply to
John Ruddy

Well thats a moot point. Would a purist say that in preservation is prototypical. On none-preservation railways the livery was a result of the companies character, it had a meaning as part of the tradition. In preservation it can be one persons whim, and should preservation not include preserving the tradition of the livery.

Simon

Reply to
simon

simon said the following on 08/01/2007 23:42:

Quite frankly, I think that the person who went to the trouble of restoring the loco and keeping it running deserves to paint it however they like! The S&D 7F on the WSR was never Prussian Blue in "real life", but it looks good on the real loco. In 50 years time couldn't that livery be regarded as prototypical, in the same way that plain black is regarded as prototypical 50 years ago? Time doesn't stop just because the original owners of the loco have sold it on.

Reply to
Paul Boyd

"Paul Boyd" wrote

I can't disagree with that sentiment, but on a personal note I much prefer to see a preserved loco in a condition and livery which it carried in its pre-preservation life.

'Flying Scotsman' in its last incarnation with German smoke deflectors, double chimney and carrying LNER 'Apple Green' livery made a nonsense of the clamour to keep 'this historic loco' in Britain and running on the mainline.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

You could also ask after all the refits and renovations, just how much of the current Flying Scotsman ever ran in LNER colours?

10%, 50%, 80%?
Reply to
estarriol

estarriol said the following on 09/01/2007 08:54:

That applies to loads of old locos! The FR's 'Prince' is often touted as being the oldest working steam loco in the world, but ISTR that only a few obscure parts of the valve gear are actually original!

Reply to
Paul Boyd

I agree. I don't like seeing the BR 4MT in caley livery - it just doesnt look right. However, that loco DID carry that livery, and the owner really does have the right to paint it whatever colour they like - I don;t have to ride behind it if I dont want to.

A fake livery is really one such as the infamous "Lord Westwood" - they are more toys or collectors items rather than one for the modellers. After all, if you are modelling a preserved line in the 1970's, wouldnt you be likely to have a Caley 4MT?

Reply to
John Ruddy

"simon" wrote

Well thats a moot point. Would a purist say that in preservation is prototypical. On none-preservation railways the livery was a result of the companies character, it had a meaning as part of the tradition. In preservation it can be one persons whim, and should preservation not include preserving the tradition of the livery.

Simon

What's the difference between an operating company (say BR, MR, or Loadhaul) when on the mainline and going to a preserved railway and being operated in the railways company ? Are the preserved railway not also an operating company ?

Are the class 37's owned by Harry Needle in preservation (That are on the main line)? They are not with the original operating company ? At what point does it change ? Is it just cos they are not on a main line to operate that it becomes "Preserved" ??

These are questions to clarify, not having a dig mate !

Andy

Reply to
Andy Sollis CVMRD

"John Turner" wrote

'Flying Scotsman' in its last incarnation with German smoke deflectors, double chimney and carrying LNER 'Apple Green' livery made a nonsense of the clamour to keep 'this historic loco' in Britain and running on the mainline.

John.

See my earlier post .... Just cos it is with a new owner, why does a new livery make it historic ? Did we say that a class 50 in Maroon with gold stripes was wrong as it had never carried it under BR ? I doubt it...

If we were to portray it in a picture after it was scrapped, say a blue Pullman in BR green, then it is historically correct, but surely, if the loco is still around, changing the livery and layout of chimney and or smoke deflectors is simply "A new guise" ?

Can we also say the same for locos such as private shunters that never graced BR or the main line... Is painting those in a new colour scheme wrong ???

Andy :-)

Reply to
Andy Sollis CVMRD

I agree completely with all the statements made above. Some may recall and some may need to read again that I was debating if it could be considered 'prototypical' for modelling purposes.

Simon

Reply to
simon

IIRC those were pretty much the words used by the guy who owned the two L&H Fairburns when people queried the liveries (t'other Fairburn was in L&NW black, complete with tank-side cauliflower - the two of them together looked rather good).

Unusual or "non-prototypical" colour schemes were fairly common features of preserved lines in the 1970s: the L&H had its two Fairburns in L&NW black and CR blue, Carnforth (IIRC) had a BR standard 2 in Midland crimson, with "LMS" in a roundel, GWR shirtbutton style, on the tender. The Bluebell, of course, had several engines in their own blue livery (and several others in other, "non-original" colours), while the K&WV originally tried standardising its own livery across its stock (a sort of mustard yellow, from very vague memories?). And, of course, Clun Castle was decked out in full GWR livery, notwithstanding the double chimney..

The blue Fairburn would be very nice for adding a spot of colour to a

1970s shed layout (preserved engine in transit)...
Reply to
Andrew Robert Breen

Somehow I doubt the 504 members of the Bachmann club who raced to purchase the Caley-Fairburn are modelling preserved lines in the 1970's? More likely they were optimists hoping for a repeat of the instant windfall which accompanied the 9F "Black Prince". Seriously, even if I knew for a fact I was going to make ten quid profit on eBay I wouldn't have bothered. There are easier ways of making money.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

Probably that is usually the case - it'd be the case for any of these limited-run models. Personally, if I modelled in 4mm and in any era where it wouldn't be entirely anachronistic[1], I'd have been very tempted by the blue Fairburn; partially because I remember being very impressed by it at Lakeside in 197grumble ('73 or '74, I suspect), and partially because it makes it as near to being a pretty engine as a Fairburn is ever likely to get. Definitely worth inventing a reason for..

[1] As in - not 19th century..
Reply to
Andrew Robert Breen

"Andy Sollis CVMRD" wrote

Not disputing any of that Andy, just saying that the appeal to raise to money to save the 'mongrel' which is now dressed as 'Flying Scotsman' claimed its historic importance as significant. *If* it is truly historically important then surely it should carry an appropriate livery. I'd add we're not talking about a privately preserved locomotive, but one which is part of the National Collection and which exists there purely through public subscription.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

The message from snipped-for-privacy@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) contains these words:

You missed out the Black Five which was "done out" in flowery wallpaper for the Solvite advert...

Reply to
David Jackson

Damme, I did too.. Now that would be a challenge for the manufacturer :)

There's also the case of City of Truro being turned out in BR lined black, complete with smokebox number plate - though I don't think it was ever run in that condition..

That was late early 90s, though.

Reply to
Andrew Robert Breen

John Turner said the following on 09/01/2007 13:57:

Thinking about this, I seem to have forgotten what "Flying Scotsman" was actually famous for!

Reply to
Paul Boyd

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