1) Wembley 1925 exhibition engine (special livery, name applied as publicity for the then-still-new LN&E) 2) One of the many "first over 100 mph" engines 3) Associated with the long-distance non-stop publicity runs of the 1920s 4) Early and high-profile private preservation 5) For many years the only steam locomotive permitted to run on BR main lines 6) High-profile "rescue" from the USA in the 1970s
Enough? It seems to have had a high publicity profile throughout its career.
Is it the Chantelle of the railway world? Sort of famous for not being famous? or just by association with the service of the same name. Perhaps people think that 4472 was the only loco ever used on the Flying Scotsman.
Adrian
The message from snipped-for-privacy@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) contains these words:
Bridgnorth Shed did that to it, in collaboration with Steam Railway, IIRC. Howls of protest from the fan of the Gas Works line - forgetting that April 1st was coming up!
Hmmm! Thought it was earlier than that...
Could have been late 80s. I'd not swear to either. Whichever it was, it was the second funniest thing ever to appear in Steam Railway (the funniest, of course, being their diatribe against Neil Cossons, which was so splendidly bonkers that it should have tun as a 1st April item too..)
Less than 1%, I suspect.
On 09/01/2007 15:27, Andrew Robert Breen said,
OK on those two, but how about the Castle shown at the same exhibition (wasn't it?) that claimed to be the most powerful loco in the UK and precipitated the exchange trials (I think I've got that right!) On that basis, Flying Scotsman was just another loco, but the Castle was caused controversy so perhaps should have had more attention.
As were many others locos of various companies, none of which have the same fame.
These were all post-preservation though - the fame seemed to have stuck before then. I'd heard of the Flying Scotsman before it even went to the USA!
As far as I can remember, and I've been a KWVR member since 1969, the only loco painted in the mustard colour was the USA 0-6-0T No. 72 (BR 30072). Their Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T 41241 was decked out for some years in lined maroon with K W (crest) V R on the tank sides. According to the current issue of "Push and Pull", in which there is also a colour photo, 41241 travelled to the 1975 Shildon Cavalcade and back via York and Darlington under its own steam. KWVR also originally painted its ex-Metropolitan wooden coaches into (IIRC) blue and cream.
As a boy, the only thing the "Scotsman" had that was different was the double tender with corridor. We all knew of the "Flying Scotsman " as the east Coast train that competed with the Royal Scot. We knew that the fastest UK trains were all ex-Paddington ( The Bristolian and Cheltenham Flyer).
The preservation lobby argued that it was the only A3 preserved. I don't know how many of them were the original A10's but weren't the A1 & 2's all new locos?
Aberystwyth
According to a usually reliable source - Ron White's "Colour-Rail" catalogue - he has a slide dated November 1984 of, and I quote, "3737 CITY OF TRURO in lined black at Bridgnorth, Nula Seer's jolly jape (and didn't it look nice!) - a rare picture before the earth trembled, mirrors cracked and there was a collective breaking of wind in the west". In the light of this, I suggest it was done for 1 April 1984, and I also seem to recall that "Nula Seer" is an anagram of somebody on the Severn Valley Railway at the time. Hope this helps,
David Costigan
Exactly why I started it as a question. First I'm a big fan of preserved railways - esp GC at Loughborough. Second any owner can do what they like with a loco without complaint as long as it keeps (or may be returned to the condition) of its essential character. Its the same as a historic building, part of the nations heratige and so the owner becomes a custodian. OK thats in an ideal world.
But the difference between a preserved railway and an operting one to me is that of function. The preserved railway is mainly for entertainment whereas a TOCs function is to make money, mostly by transport on railways.
I have no problem with the idea of modelling a preserved railway and calling it prototypical as per the preserved railway. In a TOC and to a lesser extent a preserved railway there has to be a reason for the livery that says something about the company which we try to capture in the model. But when it comes down to the owners idea of painting it any colour cos of how they feel then I would drop the description of prototypical.
Cheers, Simon
"Paul Boyd" wrote These were all post-preservation though - the fame seemed to have stuck before then. I'd heard of the Flying Scotsman before it even went to the USA!
Ah, But was that the locomotive, or the train with the same name, as many people seem to get confused with (although, credit where it is due, I suspect that 90% of the regular posters here would be aware of this and know the difference.)
Andy
"Andy Sollis CVMRD" wrote
Not disputing any of that Andy, just saying that the appeal to raise to money to save the 'mongrel' which is now dressed as 'Flying Scotsman' claimed its historic importance as significant. *If* it is truly historically important then surely it should carry an appropriate livery. I'd add we're not talking about a privately preserved locomotive, but one which is part of the National Collection and which exists there purely through public subscription.
John.
Sorry John, In the case of Scotsman, Yes I would be inclinded to agree - National Collection and all that !, But are they not going to turn it back out in BR green ? ??
Andy
Good points Simon, and exactly what Mrs Thatch and I said together when BA started removing the British flag and painting ethnic s**te on the tails of its planes... it said something about the company all right... it said that they were s**te. Pleased to say that they did listen to me in the end and repainted a version of the flag onto the tailfins.
Why are these operators always doing this to perfectly good transport assets, eh? GPO red and green vans turn into ParcelForce and BT s**te... BR green, red, and brown and cream trains painted blue then into ludicrous black and white InterCity, then the TOC's paint all kinds of liveries onto them, and then start variegating livery schemes even within the same TOC, sometimes they even have a different livery on each side of the train. Today I saw a SouthEastern EMU still in NSE colours, with massive vinyls applied end to end in the form of block graffiti. Obviously some advertising promotion, but I ask you, is that prototypical, huh?
And what about SWT and the two ex-4 car EMU's now 3-car, on the Lymington branch. One repainted into heritage green and the other into heritage blue and grey, and neither of them correct to the original livery application. SWT is a commercial concern, and the trains are revenue earning. But are they prototypical, especially as they never ran on this branch in original form?
I should write and complain to them, if I was you, before someone starts modelling them which would be a MISTAKE which we would just have to point out on this group over and over again.....
And I think we should start a petition to have Flying Scotsman scrapped, and then we could sit back and say to ourselves "job well done, that's got rid of that mongrel..."
I remember reading about the owner of Black Prince when he'd just finished the years of expensive restoration, and two spotty oiks wandered up to him at an open day and demanded to know who had given him PERMISSION to name the locomotive......
Sometimes the postings on this group do seem to be veering in that direction...
Me, I just think it is a miracle and a tribute to the dedication and hard work of the preservationists that *any* of this kit is still around in working condition, and we should just be grateful.
Cheers, Steve
My apologies, my comments have been totally aimed at a debate on "Would a purist say that (Caley Fairburn) in preservation is prototypical."
Should I get into a Tardis and make a suitable comment for your rant ?
Simon
"Andy Sollis CVMRD" wrote
I'd like to think so, but that's a new one on me!
John.
Who knows and who cares what a purist would say?
That's entirely up to you, but I consider that flying around in time and space is *not* a prototypical characteristic of a Metropolitan Police Box, and I have written to the BBC to point this out in no uncertain terms.
From now on I expect the Tardis to be scrapped and the good Doctor to be getting around on an environmentally-friendly bicycle like the rest of us.
Cheers, Steve
I do, hence my question.
This is one of the times when I am quite glad to have defective colour vision! Red, green, brown - much the same to my eyes; just lighter or darker colours. I can just about manage yellow and blue with any degree of confidence; pink just looks like blue to me! And in the RAF I did once go on parade in a dark red tie, my effort to explain to the Station Warrant Officer that it look black to me fell upon deaf ears.
And also the harbinger of bankruptcy, or going out of business, for just about everyone who owned it.
David
ROFL!!!!! Hehe, yes, visions of a "screaming skull" hiding under a slashed-peak No.1 hat, with purple smoke issuing from all around the oh-so-tight shirt collar. Been there........ Badger.
P.S. The SWO at Halton didn't like it when he found his pushbike hanging from the flagpole one morning.....
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