Future of steam R-T-R market

I am wondering how far we are from a situation of stagnation in the steam ready-to-run market where there are no remaining unmodelled prototypes that would be commercially viable for mass-market manufacturers.

To judge from the catalogues, it would seem that just about the only era of the steam age worth catering for is c.1960. I happen to have a Combined Volume from 1960 and I have skimmed through it looking for the most numerous classes then in service, and compared these with the availability of R-T-R models.

Here are the classes I have found which were over 100-strong in 1960 and which are not available or announced from either Bachmann or Hornby.

BR Standard

76000 2-6-0

Ex-GWR

42xx 2-8-0T 94XX pannier

Ex-Southern None

Ex-LMS Stanier Class 3 2-6-2T Midland 3F 0-6-0 LNWR 0-8-0 Caledonian 2F 0-6-0

Ex-LNER Q6 0-8-0 (ex-North Eastern) J37 0-6-0 (ex-North British) Ex GCR Robinson 2-8-0 (numerous rebuild variants of which the only one to number 100 was the O4/8 - Robinson chassis with Thompson boiler)

In recent years it seems that the sensible Bachmann policy has been to hoover up all the mixed-traffic classes with 100+ members (Crab, K3, Ivatt moguls, Fairburn tank, Hall). Surely the standard 76000 cannot be far behind. Hornby have evidently not been quite so numbers-driven, but the M7 is perhaps not quite so eccentric as it might seem - I was surprised to see that it was the third most numerous Southern steam class in 1960.

Do any of the remaining locos in the above list have potential as R-T-R models. They are all pretty unglamorous and several of them geographically restricted.

Of course numbers are not everything; the glamour of the named express passenger class and/or wide geographical spread is perhaps a more important factor, but I don't think there is much untapped potential here either - A2 pacifics (too similar to A1's), Clans (not successful, too Scottish), Duke of Gloucester (short lived, unsuccessful and unique

- although high profile and glamorous as a preserved loco). I feel the Standard Class 3 83000 2-6-2 tank might do reasonably well; I think it's the only non-GWR tank class that carried BR green livery and it was used on popular ex-GWR branch and secondary lines such as the Cambrian.

I would imagine that in some countries stagnation must have set in some time ago. Germany's railway were unified and its classes standardised much earlier than ours; I would think that every imaginable post-war German steam class has been available R-T-R for many years. What's it like when there's no scope for new models each year. How is interest sustained?

I suppose one factor that might change is the production methods. Manufacture may become so automated that it will be possible to produce single locos cheaply to individual orders, so there will be no need for long production runs to make R-T-R locos commercially viable.

Andy

Reply to
Andy Kirkham
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"Andy Kirkham" wrote

I think we're a long way from that situation, particularly as manufacturing costs reduce (in real terms) and some of the 'less popular' prototypes become more viable.

My suggestions would include:

GWR group 'Dukedog' 4-4-0

Southern group Adams 'Radial' 4-4-2T Beattie 2-4-0WT

02 0-4-4T

LMS group Stanier 2-6-2T Fowler 4F 0-6-0 (existing model is crap) Midland 3F 0-6-0 S&D 7F 2-8-0 Caley 0-4-4T

LNER group J15 0-6-0 J25 0-6-0 J26/27 0-6-0 G5 0-4-4T Q6 0-8-0 Various 2-8-0s (including Ex-GCR ROD) Thompson A2/3 4-6-2

BR Standard

9F 2-10-0 with Crosti boiler

The 76xxx standard has already been announced by Bachmann.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

Good troll, not, from a totally clueless 'train set' owner - I suspect. :~((

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

I would add the Stanier 2-6-4t and 2-6-0 5F to that list. Both can be easily adapted from existing designs.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

[...]

Since quality/price ratio continues to improve, and many older dies simply aren't up to modern standards, I expect that Bachmann et al will continue to offer new models, both of already modelled popular prototypes, and of hitherto unmodelled less popular ones. IOW, expect to see reissues of existing models with upgraded diework and additional detail, or completely new versions of older models, all with improved mechanisms.

I expect also that DCC and sound will continue to fall in real price even as its quality and ease of use improve, so that many older models will be reissued with DCC and sound on board. Since running variations on a product is expensive (especially if you guess wrong on the demand for each type), I expect an increase in the multi-power types, which run on both DCC and DC.

Bachmann already offers popular US/Canadian diesels with DC/DCC listed at $50US. Their Spectrum line of DC/DCC equipped steam runs around $200-$250. Broadway Limited's latest offerings are equipped with DCC-compatible sound and auto-switching between DC and DCC at about the same price as plain DC locomotives of the same quality cost a few years ago, about $300-$600, depending on prototype.

In real terms (ie, converted to 1950s dollars, when I started working for a living), locos are cheaper now than they have ever been. I just bought a Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo Ry 4-6-4, equipped with DC/DCC and sound, by Paragon, a division of Broadway Limited. It lists at $400. That's $30 or less in 1950s dollars: back then a Varney diecast kit for a generic 2-8-0 cost about $100 - detail parts extra.

HTH

Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir

kim wrote: [...]

If you mean, put a different body on an existing mech, sure, that makes a lot of sense - if the existing mech is correct, and if it's up to modern standards. If you mean, build a variation of an existing body, sure that would work too, if the variation consists of details, and a major dimension such as includes boiler diameter. In such a case, a whole new set of dies and tools would have to be made, so the question becomes whether it's worth building a new body for an old mech. Older dies and tools for both mechs and bodies just aren't as good as what's possible nowadays, and the real cost is much less than the original cost of the older tools. Much better to build a new model, I think.

HTH

Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir

These were not good prototypes, so rather suspect case for a model.

Yes please

Definitly yes.

Not sure if I could justify one.

What about something different, the LMS had large numbers of 2-4-2T's, the LNWR & L&YR both had significant fleets.

Reply to
Kevin Martin

Plus a few from the Furness (rebuilds of Sharp, Stewart 2-4-0s, IIRC). They didn't last long in LM&S ownership, though. And I don't think any of the Caledonian 2-4-2Ts lasted long enough to for the LM&S to get hold of them (interesting engines - IIRC the only outside-cylinder standard-gauge 2-4-2Ts in .uk).

Reply to
Andrew Robert Breen

Hundred of Manhood and Selsey Tramway:

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Reply to
Christopher A. Lee

The original poster specified the 1960 era and I don't think there were many of these left by then?

(kim)

Reply to
kim

The original poster specified the 1960 era and I don't think there were many of these left by then?

(kim)

Reply to
kim

Ah. Didn't see that one. It must have been in the pile of stuff I caught up on having been away. All I saw was the LM&S + 2-4-2T combination..

Reply to
Andrew Robert Breen

It wasn't so much that I was *specifying* the 1960 era - just observing that the manufacturers seemed to reckon it was the only era worth supporting.

Andy

Reply to
Andy Kirkham

Cork, Blackrock & Passage. NCC 3ft gauge compounds

Andy

Reply to
Andy Kirkham

Doh! I see you specified standard gauge.

Andy

Reply to
Andy Kirkham

"Andy Kirkham" wrote

They seem pretty keen on the BR blue diesel era too, and to be fair both attract a good deal of customer support - at least in my emporium.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

observing

But not the pre TOPS era of BR Blue. :~(

The '67 > '74 period must be one of the most interesting time for diesel / electric livery, many non standard blue liveries whilst at the same time BR green was still in abundance, various styles of yellow warning panels, both prefixed and non prefixed numbers whilst the (miss) use of the BR double arrow emblem on both green and blue stock was not uncommon. Motive power aside, much of the old steam age remained, and more than a few goods yards were still in use (certainly in the late '60's anyway), unfitted wagons were still common, both Mk1 and 2 coaching stock were in use (including air-con stock in the early '70's) whilst there was still a few pre nationalisation designs (notably Gresley Buffet cars) in regular use.

More BR blue non TOPS numbering is what I say, please Bachmann and Hornby!

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

Methinks it will soon be the majority as we approach the "40 year" rule and steam + green diesel fans will migrate to 0-gauge.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

"kim" wrote

Could well be, but the current (and very colourful) scene is also taking off too. Sales of class 158 dmus recently have astounded me.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

But judging by the number of discounted pre-TOPS models on the Hattons site, they are not particularily popular with buyers.

Fred X

Reply to
Fred X

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