Heljan Class 58 model

"kim" wrote

Get your facts right; the RRP on the Hornby 50 is GBP85.00

John.

John Turner wrote:-

I stand corrected. It is still a long way short of £100 and is being discounted to as little as £66

(kim)

"kim" wrote

So? Are 'kettle' models not similarly discounted?

John.

John Turner wrote:-

What if they are? The fact remains that no RTR diesel is selling for anything like £100 in the UK.

(kim)

Read the announcement by the Class 58 Group. Its clear enough that if they get enough advance orders then the model WILL be made by Heljan.

You don't announce something like that without having spoken with Heljan and done the maths first!

I've looked at the costs of getting a decent model produced for the NZ market (NZ prototype of course)

The problem with that statement is that while there may well be sufficient customers long term, they are _very_ unlikely to front up with that sort of money on the day. If you've pared your costings down to the minimum and borrowed the development and production costs for 1000 models then you're going to need the returm immediately.

Another problem here is that an existing, reasonably accurate model at say 50 pounds is going to take most of the sales away from your 'accurate' model.

The choice of model would be very important to the success of the venture. I wouldn't buy a Diesel loco but would look seriously at an accurate steam loco.

Ben C wrote:-

There is nothing in the press release to suggest that Heljan has agreed to this project. Even less likely is the suggestion that Heljan would be willing to incorporate a modification by a third party. Anyone who who has ever spoken to a manufacturing company will know how the chief engineer feels about that.

(kim)

Why not ask the 58 Group these questions?

snipped-for-privacy@c58lg.co.uk

What has this got to do with Class 58 models?

Ben C. wrote:-

Dirk Belcher wrote previously:-

"This is a *BIG* urban myth. I venture to suggest that *many* British modellers are willing to pay around the 100 GBP mark for an RTR locomotive... on the proviso that the quality and accuracy levels are up to current (International?) standards.

Heljan's 47, Hornby's 50 are both not far short of that price figure and have sold extremely well. Imagine a full- spec, *accurate* model of a popular and in- demand prototype and I cannot and will not believe that it wouldn't sell in large quantitites at anything around the 100 quid mark. "

(kim)

I've seen many, many, many UK outline diesels reach far more than a hundred quid on ebay.

Pete

The tooling costs are exactly the same regardless of whether a model sells 1, 100, 1000 or 10000. The tooling costs are exactly the same regardless of how much it costs to pack, ship, import or export.

Higher projected sales figures won't make the tooling costs any less, they'll just make the likelihood of something being tooled in the first place a little more likely.

Pete

That would probably be because _individuals_ wanted a particular model that was no longer available off the shelf. If you check the bidding you would probably find two or at most three bidders at the hig bid part of the auction.

Pete wrote:-

But these were all one-offs of discontinued lines, not batches of a thousand or more current production.

The Triang Class 81 and Hornby Metro-Vick are fetching £150 a time. If any loco should be put back into production it should be these.

(kim)

Sure, but the costs are spread over 1, 100, 1000 or 10000 sales.

Imagine the tooling cost equates to UKP10,000 at the counter: For 1 model that's UKP10,000 plus the rest of the costs. For 1000 models that's P10- plus the rest of the costs. for 10000 models that's P1- plus the rest of the costs.

I remember some nugget paying well over a hundred quid (I think it was nearly £300) for a Lima 60... seller must've been laughing all the way to the bank.

That's exactly my point. I'm -not interested- in 'imagining' tooling costs of 10,000 quid, I'm interested in -knowing- how much tooling costs are.

Pete

What for? Neither would have a big market, the price is only paid because they are seen as collectible. It has nothing to do with quality or desirability just scarecity. Keith

Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.

Keith Norgrove wrote:-

Various polls on and off-line have indicated that people do want new RTR models of these particular locomotives (and the Blue Pullman for that matter). Various resin and brass body kits already exist which indicates a demand for these prototypes.

As yet no poll I've read has indicated any sort of demand for a Class 58 nor is there a brass or resin kit from any independent supplier as far as I know. If there is insufficient demand to support a kit built alternative, there is unlikely to be sufficient demand to support a high spec RTR model.

(kim)