How to sell a model railway

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Thatcher then
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Often see this written, but I wonder if she actually said you shouldnt be penalised just because you are successful.
Cheers, Simon
(One of the few people to proudly admit voting for her.)

simon wrote:
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There's very little mileage (or tax revenue) in penalizing the unsuccessful!
Regards, Greg.P.

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Is money your only measure of success ?
Cheers, Simon

simon wrote:
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We were talking about "penalizing" plus right wing government in relation to success. IMH experience those sorts of people aren't much interested in 1:87 scale golden spike ceremonies. (Did someone mention gold - tax him!)
Regards, Greg.P.

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I wasnt referring to just government 'penalizing', it is anyone that is successful in creating something or even having a particular skill. there are exceptions of course.
Cheers, Simon

wrote: > Thatcher then > showed everyone how to be well thought of by being selfish. Her > favourite people were asset strippers! > Often see this written, but I wonder if she actually said you shouldnt be penalised just because you are successful. Cheers, Simon (One of the few people to proudly admit voting for her.)
    I cannot possibly know "what" she said or when but well well aware of who she rewarded. The news of today regarding the people who are pseudo non resident and therefore pay no taxes is not new and was attributable to her government. (remember Lord Vesty?)
    Even now I pay a wedge into the UK exchequer but am entitled to sweet f a . At least here I can have a voice in where my money goes as so much public spending is done at a local level and generally outside of politicing.
    As Simon has young children I reckon that he knows nothing of the +50 cull that Thatcher organised -- the Miners & Steelworkers were far from being the only dispossessed!
    The cult of the easy money "professions"such as law ( aspired to equally by many asian people) and the rejection of trade / manufacturing which truly makes national wealth had turned GB Ltd into an unstable and vunerable society. Like the over inflated housing market, the bubble will burst.
    It is 15 years since I retired and despite regular increments to my UK sourced pensions my net income has deminished. When Brown became chancellor I paid no UK tax but now I pay more and more each year unlike the chaps whose income is 10 to the several powers higher than mine.
    My favourite countries ( US & Europe) all treat their ex Military and Civil Service with respect and support. The UK hands out nothing and hopes that they will go off and die quietly whilst applauding the latest stupidity of footie and pop -- almost as if the adult population has rejected the ideas of responsibility and is trying to metamorph into Peter Pan type ados --- leave it all to the ( well who exactly?)
Regards

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I'm no Maggie fan, but she did initially sort out a lot of problems that had to be addressed one way or another if we weren't to go begging to the IMF again. But then she got carried away (I'm very fair, I treat all politicians with equal contempt, whatever party).....
What she did unleash, probably not deliberately, was the "me, me" attitute to everything. That is what led to the delicine of British industry, as almost everyone then became quite happpy to buy overseas goods (for whatever reason, perceived or genuine) even if it put their neighbour out of a job. Happily, those who thought it didn't matter are now finding their jobs "out-sourced", which is nicely ironic. It's even more ironic that people are prepared to pay more (Co-Op ground coffee trippled in price when it went "fair-trade", there must be some *exetremely" wealthy coffee growers about) to be seen to be fair to someone overseas, but won't pay 20 quid more to keep the guy down the road in a job making fridges etc.
It's very easy to blame "them" for our decline, but often the cause is "us".
Cheers Richard

Apparantly there's a programme on BBC2 tonight (9pm) entitled 'White'. Trailers suggest it tells how the white working classes here in the UK consider themselves worthless and unwanted following the actions & policies of successive governments of both persuasions.
This group now believe they are disenfranchised as neither serious political party (Tories or New Tories) effectively looks after their interests.
It may make interesting viewing.
John.

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That'll be me then!
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It'll be interesting to see how the issue is covered - the usual media attitude is to sneer at those who aren't into "PC" etc
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Cheers Richard

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Young child - am blessed with only the one, although he has the energy and presence of several. thank you,
I do look and act young, but am over 50, so remember the closing of the uneconomic mines quite well. I live in the middle of the east midlands coalfield, my father, grandfather and various relations.... worked in the pit. I personally am modelling a coal mine - with a scratch built pit head. Am of the opinion that the closing of the coal mines was much needed. Most people were/are far better off for it.
But after that you seem to be wandering a bit. I suspect I agree with a lot of what you say but weve moved from Thatcher to the more recent labour government. I have no time for nearly all of them.
cheers, Simon
(one of the few people that can honestly say he didnt vote for Blair cos realised right from the start that he was all talk and no trousers)

wrote: > > > Regards Young child - am blessed with only the one, although he has the energy and presence of several. thank you, I do look and act young, but am over 50, so remember the closing of the uneconomic mines quite well. I live in the middle of the east midlands coalfield, my father, grandfather and various relations.... worked in the pit. I personally am modelling a coal mine - with a scratch built pit head. Am of the opinion that the closing of the coal mines was much needed. Most people were/are far better off for it. But after that you seem to be wandering a bit. I suspect I agree with a lot of what you say but weve moved from Thatcher to the more recent labour government. I have no time for nearly all of them. cheers, Simon (one of the few people that can honestly say he didnt vote for Blair cos realised right from the start that he was all talk and no trousers)
One of my very favourite things is to wander -- in all possible ways! You are not much older than my own children and they have little recollection of 1979+ because neither they, their friends or mother had any time for the serious subjects of the time. Pop, TV, clubs and the cool idea of Drugs held sway throughout the affluent society in which we lived.
Having just retired from the military (at that time), I found myself in a world of backsheesh, self agrandisement and a willingness to rubbish anyone more experienced or qualified,(especially ex military). Things which my collegues found difficult in an engineering environment had their drawings and handbooks destroyed or "lost" thus providing the ideal reason for incompetance.
It had its drawbacks though -- having been trained to think and act responsibly found it hard to break the habit and worked too many hours rectifying years of neglect and laziness causing the failure of yet another marriage!
Since then, I have decided to indulge myself and have the deferred gratification by making my model railway and going where ever and when ever I (we) can (wandering).
Just yesterday one of my very elderly neighbours came by ( yes zimmer et al) and stopped for a chat. He turned out to be a 93 y.o. retired cheminot who when asked if he drove locomotives on our local (closed) line dismissed it with a hand wave and announced " I drove expresses from the Gare du Nord". This delivered with real pride such that I found it infectious.
Hows that for a ramble?
Regards
Peter A

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 08:31:01 +0100, Peter Abraham
d.
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Do not a lot of people from the Military find that adjustment difficult? The cynic in me would suggest that the world in which you found yourself is the normal one , whereas within the military there is a well ordered structure for everything in normal peacetime operations. A task somewhat made simpler by the fact we do not expect the armed forces to return a profit on a balance sheet. To take a really simple example when you were maintaining your reactors others had the task of ensuring the supplies for breakfast had been procured and cooked for you. Your civilian opposite number on land had to take time out to do the same with less personnel to help and organise the transport themselves.
You can tell an ex marine engineer or electrician, they never turn bloody lights off after them. Never had to pay for electricity themselves
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Common amongst many people ending a sea career not just ex Military. The partner at home has got used to running things and then Husband comes back for good . He is used to a life of getting things done through others organisation whether the chain is Grey funnel lines or P and O's. He thinks he can do better than she has done for 25 years or so and the arguments start. They then find that rather than growing together over the years they have lived two separate lives interspersed with repeat honeymoons and within day to day living they don't actually like each other much.
G.Harman
G.Harman

snipped-for-privacy@interalpha.couk wrote:
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After a long RN career my father entered the civilian world working for a defence contactor and discovered, even in a site largely occupied by ex-forces personnel, that he had to *ask* for things to be done, and those who he asked were quite likely to say no, sometimes even if just to be bloody minded. And further, despite holding a senior position in the company, respect for that position still had to be earned rather than be expected. All quite a shock after being a submariner, though his background probably prepared him better than others who had come from rather more privilaged backgrounds.
Cheers Richard

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:53:25 +0000, snipped-for-privacy@interalpha.couk wrote:
Of course I recognised another version of the real world! Military (RN submarines) is not an isolated mini world. During my 23 years I had the pleasure of working with thousands of civilian engineers, administrators and scientists. I did two stints in shipyards and time at RR Derby and many UKAEA Establishments. People were (with the notable excption of an unmentionable Birkenhead shipyard) diligent, reliable, dedicated and a pleasure to work with.
My error was to end up working for one of the new (1976 ) Water Authorities which were stuffed with ex Merchant Navy 2nd Engineers who had stayed at sea just long enough to avoid national service. I often wonder what the future would have produced if I had taken up the offer to be the fault finder on 125's at SPM Bristol.
It is also an error to assume that there are plenty of hands to do the work! As long ago as 1959 ships were on reduced manning due to lack of Electrical personnel and believe me nothing has changed except the policy of giving less & less training and that to a lower and lower level of expertese. This last ,balanced hopefully by the use of throw away units and thus eliminating the need for intimate knowlege. Probably why , in my last years as an Officer I found myself doing many repairs myself. Having been a Chief Artificer it was not a problem but posed plenty of problems in the big scheme of things. Just like the chaps out in the dessert now, we were short of people,equipment and an informed and interested political leadership . They had never been exposed to the "Men & Horses first" philosophy and one can substitute "working men" for that because modern society has adopted the don't know, don't care attitude regarding just how things arrive on the table. My father ended his working days in the Bakery trade and I would not care to count the night shifts which I covered or the rounds done because people failed to turn up or had run off with the takings!(whilst I was on leave of course).
Regards
Peter A

snipped-for-privacy@interalpha.couk said the following on 08/03/2008 12:53:
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Oh, that is so true - I'll add ex-RAF to that list as well.

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Well I play trains because I found it a great pleasure and the opportunities for learning new skills, gaining new knowledge, creating new things in a variety of ways, excitement as made, modified or bought new kit or whatever, chance to discuss variety of topics with new people .....After got board with learning in career and realised not interested in progressing up the greasy pole.
Do remember enough of the late 70's and early eighties. Have seen the effect on some friends, aquaintences, family and the local area. One of the most fasinating books on the topic is 'The Leicestershire Miners' by Colin Griffin - Senior Lecturer at Trent Polythech. Published by the NUM it gives an interesting view of the whole business.
Cheers, Simon

"simon" wrote
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Really Simon? I suspect the exhorbitant prices we're now having to pay for gas & electricity are a direct result of those 'uneconomic' pit closures, and tell me how keeping the entire populace of former coal mining areas in state benefits are helping them or our economy.
The virtual elimination of productive 'working class' jobs here in the UK is perhaps the greatest crime perpetuated on the British people throughout the Thatcher era and that of the current New Tory government.
John.

John Turner wrote:
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It is unlikely the entire populace are on benefits. Many will have taken the chance to do something else, even if it means leaving settlements created for the express purpose of supporting the now-defunct mines. There are lots of people doing interesting and rewarding jobs in nice places who are jolly glad not to have had little choice but to follow their fathers and grandfathers down pit.
Railways replacing canals are a classic example of changes which caused problems for the people involved, but long term benefits for society. Should we give up our motor cars to support farriers? Unplug the internet so that boys can once again be paid a few pence to carry messages?
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Few people actually want working class jobs: given half a chance the working class man will become middle class. The pit/trawler/mill is good for _other peoples'_ children, but we want our own kids to do something better paid, safer, or with a bigger future.
At various times my grandad was a foundry worker, docker, soldier and builder, and he made damned sure my mum (FWIW), and then my brother and I wouldn't be any of those things.

Arthur Figgis wrote:
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There are former Jaguar trim-fitters around here sweeping the forecourt at Morrison's for minimum wage or else selling imported BMW's to former Jaguar customers. I fail to see how either benefits the UK economy in the long run?
(kim)

kim wrote:
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They make Jaguar sales more exclusive. (?)