We went to a local Indian restaraunt for lunch on Christmas Eve. As we
were leaving, the proprietor wished us a happy Christmas.
The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to me to be
something of a myth. I've encountered plenty of people who believe in
their existance and won't mention Christmas because they don't want to
offend them, but I have never encountered anyone who actually claims
to be offended by it themselves.
Mark
: > "Jerry" < wrote
: >
: >> You're not offending me, just every non Christian in the UK,
: >
: > Got some fish & chips from our local Paki chippie last night,
and
: > without th: >
: > "Merry Christmas".
: >
: > The proprietor just replied:
: >
: > "Merry Christmas to you too".
: >
: > Didn't appear to be offended.
: >
: > All the best to all,
:
: Why should he be?
:
: He might have been in Hull as long as you!
:
...and could well be of the Christian faith too, do remember that
many people from Pakistan were forced out of Pakistan (and later
Uganda) because they were not of the Muslim faith.
We have a Pakistani family in our church, it turns out that
persecution of Christians is rife in Pakistan so some leave and come
to England. However, I am always wary of assuming that any Asian is a
Pakistani (or an Indian for that matter) due to the long-standing
enmity between those states. A New Zealander will be offended if you
ask if they are Australian, but not half as offended as an Indian who
you ask if they are from Pakistan.
Guy
: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:20:37 -0000, John Turner put finger to
keyboard
: and typed:
:
: >
: >"Jerry" < wrote
: >
: >> You're not offending me, just every non Christian in the UK,
: >
: >Got some fish & chips from our local Paki chippie last night,
and without
: >th: >
: >"Merry Christmas".
: >
: >The proprietor just replied:
: >
: >"Merry Christmas to you too".
: >
: >Didn't appear to be offended.
:
: We went to a local Indian restaraunt for lunch on Christmas
Eve. As we
: were leaving, the proprietor wished us a happy Christmas.
:
Why would s/he be offended by wishing *you* a "Happy Christmas",
it would be like you wishing a Jew "Rosh Hashanah" on or around
the 19th Sept. - on the other hand, for example, should someone
offer their wishes for "Rosh Hashanah" to you just because they
think you 'look Jewish'...
: The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to
me to be
: something of a myth.
Like many (but not all...) non Jews in Israel get used to the
mention of Rosh Hashanah, all it proves is how 'thick-skinned
some will become.
I've encountered plenty of people who believe in
: their existance and won't mention Christmas because they don't
want to
: offend them, but I have never encountered anyone who actually
claims
: to be offended by it themselves.
:
What does that prove, for all we know you could be a hermit Mark.
:o) The fact is, offering **specific** religious greetings to
someone who is not (or might not be) of the faith - especially
when there is a universal greeting that can be used instead - is
not only crass but shows up ones own ignorance! Of course if all
"Christmas" means to you is an excuse to spend money, eat, sleep,
drink and generally 'have a party'...
Well, if he was offended by the mention of Christmas, he wouldn't have
said it.
I've been wished happiness on a variety of religious holidays that I
don't personally observe. I don't find it at all offensive.
I don't see why a non-Jew would be offended by Rosh Hashanah, any more
that they would be by Chinese New Year. I'm not offended by it. Are
you?
Even if I was, I've encountered plenty of people on Usenet. And none
of them have ever expressed offence at being wished a merry Christmas,
or any other religious festival.
But the "universal greeting" isn't the same thing.
If anyone says to me that they are offended by me mentioning
Christmas, then I will desist from mentioning it to them. But until I
encounter someone who does actually hold that postion, I'll stick to
wishing people a Merry Christmas at Christmas time.
Mark
: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:00:53 -0000, Jerry put finger to
keyboard and
: typed:
:
: >
: >Why would s/he be offended by wishing *you* a "Happy
Christmas",
:
: Well, if he was offended by the mention of Christmas, he
wouldn't have
: said it.
Whhhoooosssshhh.... You just don't 'get it', do you. :~(
Perhaps this will sort things out:
Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low
stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral, winter solstice holiday,
practised within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion
of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others
who choose to practise their own religion as well as those who choose
not to practise a religion at all;
Additionally,
a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically
uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year 2010,
but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other
cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without
regard to the race, creed, colour, religious, or sexual preferences of
the wishees.
(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It
implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes
for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended
emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the
holiday spirit.)
or maybe not!
I suspect their number is very few. Less than those Christians who are
enraged when you use some other holiday salutation :-). It's fun to pull
their chain :-).
I'm getting the fact that I've never come across a non-Christian who
was offended by people wishing him/her a merry Christmas. Unless you
are one such, in which case please feel free to say so explicitly
instead of just hinting at it.
Mark
I think that's kind of my point, really. When someone says that they
prefer to use a "universal greeting" in order to avoid causing
offence, what it really means is that either a) they are genuinely
ignorant of the fact that hardly anyone at all is offended by the
mention of Christmas, or b) what they're actually doing is
deliberately *trying* to cause offence among those who would prefer to
use the traditional terminology. The former is mere foolishness, the
latter is deliberate mendacity.
If a non-Christian says "I prefer to say 'happy holidays' because I
don't believe in the concept behind 'Christmas'", then that's both
entirely honest and non-offensive. But claiming that a desire to avoid
causing offence to others is very rarely honest.
Mark
:
: I'm getting the fact that I've never come across a
non-Christian who
: was offended by people wishing him/her a merry Christmas.
So, you are "Mr Universe" and thus qualified to speak for all man
kind?...
:
: > The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to
me to be
: > something of a myth.
:
: I suspect their number is very few. Less than those Christians
who are
: enraged when you use some other holiday salutation :-). It's
fun to pull
: their chain :-).
:
: --
: Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Certainly did in your case!
:
: I think that's kind of my point
In YOUR opinion.
No doubt you are also one of those British cretins who expect
everyone else to speak English when you are abroad and just shout
when they fail to understand your wish for a full English
breakfast, fish and chips and warm beer!
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