Merry Christmas All

wrote: : > "Jerry" < wrote : > : >> You're not offending me, just every non Christian in the UK, : > : > Got some fish & chips from our local Paki chippie last night, and : > without thinking as I left I said: : > : > "Merry Christmas". : > : > The proprietor just replied: : > : > "Merry Christmas to you too". : > : > Didn't appear to be offended. : > : > All the best to all, : : Why should he be? : : He might have been in Hull as long as you! :
...and could well be of the Christian faith too, do remember that many people from Pakistan were forced out of Pakistan (and later Uganda) because they were not of the Muslim faith.

"Jerry" < wrote
  Quoted Text Here  
A bit like my Jewish brother-in-law was forced out of Egypt when his father's business was nationalised by Nasser (I think).
John.

"John Turner" wrote
  Quoted Text Here  
Oh, and he celebrates Christmas too. ;-)
John.

John Turner wrote:
  Quoted Text Here  
Several newspapers over here have run stories pointing out that most of the most popular secular Christmas songs were written by Jews....
Happy Christmas to all, this soporific Boxing Day. We're about to watch the first half of a Miss Marple (with Joan Hickson playing her), then we'll tuck into the ham (yesterday we had turkey), then we'll watch the 2nd half of the show, then we'll tidy up and off to bed. Oh, the dog needs walking - our daughter's dog, I hasten to add, which she brought along with the rest of the family.
Cheers, wolf k.

"MartinS" wrote
  Quoted Text Here  
I live in North Lincolnshire, not Hull.
But when in Rome.
John.

  Quoted Text Here  
Do you cross that big bridge every day?
I was born in Cleethorpes!

"MartinS" wrote
  Quoted Text Here  
I sure do! :-)
Apart from the toll, it's a really nice start to each day.
  Quoted Text Here  
I (we) walk the dogs there sometimes.
John.

  Quoted Text Here  
It must take a toll on you, though.

"MartinS" wrote
  Quoted Text Here  
It's quicker commuting to the shop in Hull from Barton upon Humber than from many parts of Hull itself. 15-20 minutes most days.
John.

  Quoted Text Here  
That to me is the whole point. In this country the tradition is to wish people a Merry Christmas. That does not mean you require the listener to be christian, british or immediately convert. It is merely a greeting we've used in my lifetime. This is a uk newsgroup, the majority of readers are british or at least familiar with british custom.
Now if someone is offended by this greeting (in britain) then I have no interest in any discussion or contact with them. To be offended shows no interest in the opinions of others, in fact it suggests that we as a nation have no right to our customs. It is the word offended that makes me think that. If someone shows no interest then would think them merely impolite.
Now if am speaking to a someone that I know to not be British - say they are French - then may say joyeux noel as well or instead - especially if was in France. If was in any other country then would make the effort to find what if anything they have for this time of the year and any other special days for them and if suitable give the appropriate greeting.
This to me means I respect my countries tradition and customs and am willing to give the same respect to others. It is within reason of course, if found myself in a land of cannibals then would retire quickly and quietly.
Cheers, Simon

: > : > "MartinS" wrote : > : >> He might have been in Hull as long as you! : > : > I live in North Lincolnshire, not Hull. : > : > But when in Rome. : > : > John. : > : That to me is the whole point. In this country the tradition is to wish : people a Merry Christmas. That does not mean you require the listener to be : christian, british or immediately convert.
That is what makes the nation arrogant, it's tradition for ignorant Brits to also expect the non British to speak English - even in their own country - and when they don't understand, for the self same ignorant Brits to just shout at them (again in English) rather than (try) to learn their language.
: It is merely a greeting we've : used in my lifetime.
Perhaps to you it might be, obviously to you all Christmas means is a time to over eat and get pissed out of your tiny mind whilst watching crappy TV.
: This is a uk newsgroup, the majority of readers are : british or at least familiar with british custom.
...and there are whole sections of *traditional and native* British people who do not celebrate the religious festival.
: : Now if someone is offended by this greeting (in britain) then I have no : interest in any discussion or contact with them.
That is called being an ignorant (religious) bigot at best, or simple a ignorant semen stain at worst!
: To be offended shows no : interest in the opinions of others, in fact it suggests that we as a nation : have no right to our customs. It is the word offended that makes me think : that. If someone shows no interest then would think them merely impolite.
The only people being impolite are those who just assume...
: : Now if am speaking to a someone that I know to not be British - say they are : French - then may say joyeux noel as well or instead - especially if was in : France. If was in any other country then would make the effort to find what : if anything they have for this time of the year and any other special days : for them and if suitable give the appropriate greeting.
But what about the *British* Jew, the *British* Muslim, the *British* Hindu, the *British* Buddhist, even the *British* Atheists?
: : This to me means I respect my countries tradition and customs and am willing : to give the same respect to others. It is within reason of course, if found : myself in a land of cannibals then would retire quickly and quietly. :
No doubt you also never shop on a Sunday either...

Jerry wrote:
[...]
  Quoted Text Here  
[...]
Well, what about them? Are they like you?
Somehow I doubt it.

  Quoted Text Here  
No it doesnt, that is a totally unrelated discussion.
  Quoted Text Here  
Heck no, theres lots more to it than that. Nativity plays, carol services, star wars on TV ..... Dont drink any more.
  Quoted Text Here  
But are they familiar with the British custom ?
  Quoted Text Here  
No it doesnt - see below.
  Quoted Text Here  
Explain to me how they could be offended - uninterested ok, not bothered ok. Explain to me their preference ok. But offended by a traditional greeting of this country to other people of this country. It equates to an immigrant requiring me to speak to the immigrants language to everyone else in this country instead of english. Should I wear shorts and a hat with corks rather than traditional english dress to avoid upsetting Aussies ?
  Quoted Text Here  
Yes I do.
Cheers, Simon

On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:20:37 -0000, John Turner put finger to keyboard and typed:
  Quoted Text Here  
We went to a local Indian restaraunt for lunch on Christmas Eve. As we were leaving, the proprietor wished us a happy Christmas.
The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to me to be something of a myth. I've encountered plenty of people who believe in their existance and won't mention Christmas because they don't want to offend them, but I have never encountered anyone who actually claims to be offended by it themselves.
Mark

: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:20:37 -0000, John Turner put finger to keyboard : and typed: : : > : >"Jerry" < wrote : > : >> You're not offending me, just every non Christian in the UK, : > : >Got some fish & chips from our local Paki chippie last night, and without : >thinking as I left I said: : > : >"Merry Christmas". : > : >The proprietor just replied: : > : >"Merry Christmas to you too". : > : >Didn't appear to be offended. : : We went to a local Indian restaraunt for lunch on Christmas Eve. As we : were leaving, the proprietor wished us a happy Christmas. :
Why would s/he be offended by wishing *you* a "Happy Christmas", it would be like you wishing a Jew "Rosh Hashanah" on or around the 19th Sept. - on the other hand, for example, should someone offer their wishes for "Rosh Hashanah" to you just because they think you 'look Jewish'...
: The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to me to be : something of a myth.
Like many (but not all...) non Jews in Israel get used to the mention of Rosh Hashanah, all it proves is how 'thick-skinned some will become.
I've encountered plenty of people who believe in : their existance and won't mention Christmas because they don't want to : offend them, but I have never encountered anyone who actually claims : to be offended by it themselves. :
What does that prove, for all we know you could be a hermit Mark. :o) The fact is, offering **specific** religious greetings to someone who is not (or might not be) of the faith - especially when there is a universal greeting that can be used instead - is not only crass but shows up ones own ignorance! Of course if all "Christmas" means to you is an excuse to spend money, eat, sleep, drink and generally 'have a party'...

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:00:53 -0000, Jerry put finger to keyboard and typed:
  Quoted Text Here  
Well, if he was offended by the mention of Christmas, he wouldn't have said it.
  Quoted Text Here  
I've been wished happiness on a variety of religious holidays that I don't personally observe. I don't find it at all offensive.
  Quoted Text Here  
I don't see why a non-Jew would be offended by Rosh Hashanah, any more that they would be by Chinese New Year. I'm not offended by it. Are you?
  Quoted Text Here  
Even if I was, I've encountered plenty of people on Usenet. And none of them have ever expressed offence at being wished a merry Christmas, or any other religious festival.
  Quoted Text Here  
But the "universal greeting" isn't the same thing.
If anyone says to me that they are offended by me mentioning Christmas, then I will desist from mentioning it to them. But until I encounter someone who does actually hold that postion, I'll stick to wishing people a Merry Christmas at Christmas time.
Mark

: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:00:53 -0000, Jerry put finger to keyboard and : typed: : <snip> : > : >Why would s/he be offended by wishing *you* a "Happy Christmas", : : Well, if he was offended by the mention of Christmas, he wouldn't have : said it.
Whhhoooosssshhh.... You just don't 'get it', do you. :~(

Jerry wrote:
  Quoted Text Here  
Have a Satisfying Saturnalia, Jerry.
wolf k.

Perhaps this will sort things out:
Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral, winter solstice holiday, practised within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others who choose to practise their own religion as well as those who choose not to practise a religion at all;
Additionally, a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without regard to the race, creed, colour, religious, or sexual preferences of the wishees.
(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)
or maybe not!
  Quoted Text Here  

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:02:49 -0000, Jerry put finger to keyboard and typed:
  Quoted Text Here  
I'm getting the fact that I've never come across a non-Christian who was offended by people wishing him/her a merry Christmas. Unless you are one such, in which case please feel free to say so explicitly instead of just hinting at it.
Mark