Merry Christmas All

We went to a local Indian restaraunt for lunch on Christmas Eve. As we were leaving, the proprietor wished us a happy Christmas.
The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to me to be something of a myth. I've encountered plenty of people who believe in their existance and won't mention Christmas because they don't want to offend them, but I have never encountered anyone who actually claims to be offended by it themselves.
Mark

: > "Jerry" < wrote : > : >> You're not offending me, just every non Christian in the UK, : > : > Got some fish & chips from our local Paki chippie last night, and : > without th: > : > "Merry Christmas". : > : > The proprietor just replied: : > : > "Merry Christmas to you too". : > : > Didn't appear to be offended. : > : > All the best to all, : : Why should he be? : : He might have been in Hull as long as you! :
...and could well be of the Christian faith too, do remember that many people from Pakistan were forced out of Pakistan (and later Uganda) because they were not of the Muslim faith.

We have a Pakistani family in our church, it turns out that persecution of Christians is rife in Pakistan so some leave and come to England. However, I am always wary of assuming that any Asian is a Pakistani (or an Indian for that matter) due to the long-standing enmity between those states. A New Zealander will be offended if you ask if they are Australian, but not half as offended as an Indian who you ask if they are from Pakistan. Guy

: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:20:37 -0000, John Turner put finger to keyboard : and typed: : : > : >"Jerry" < wrote : > : >> You're not offending me, just every non Christian in the UK, : > : >Got some fish & chips from our local Paki chippie last night, and without : >th: > : >"Merry Christmas". : > : >The proprietor just replied: : > : >"Merry Christmas to you too". : > : >Didn't appear to be offended. : : We went to a local Indian restaraunt for lunch on Christmas Eve. As we : were leaving, the proprietor wished us a happy Christmas. :
Why would s/he be offended by wishing *you* a "Happy Christmas", it would be like you wishing a Jew "Rosh Hashanah" on or around the 19th Sept. - on the other hand, for example, should someone offer their wishes for "Rosh Hashanah" to you just because they think you 'look Jewish'...
: The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to me to be : something of a myth.
Like many (but not all...) non Jews in Israel get used to the mention of Rosh Hashanah, all it proves is how 'thick-skinned some will become.
I've encountered plenty of people who believe in : their existance and won't mention Christmas because they don't want to : offend them, but I have never encountered anyone who actually claims : to be offended by it themselves. :
What does that prove, for all we know you could be a hermit Mark. :o) The fact is, offering **specific** religious greetings to someone who is not (or might not be) of the faith - especially when there is a universal greeting that can be used instead - is not only crass but shows up ones own ignorance! Of course if all "Christmas" means to you is an excuse to spend money, eat, sleep, drink and generally 'have a party'...

Have a Satisfying Saturnalia, Jerry.
wolf k.

Well, if he was offended by the mention of Christmas, he wouldn't have said it.
I've been wished happiness on a variety of religious holidays that I don't personally observe. I don't find it at all offensive.
I don't see why a non-Jew would be offended by Rosh Hashanah, any more that they would be by Chinese New Year. I'm not offended by it. Are you?
Even if I was, I've encountered plenty of people on Usenet. And none of them have ever expressed offence at being wished a merry Christmas, or any other religious festival.
But the "universal greeting" isn't the same thing.
If anyone says to me that they are offended by me mentioning Christmas, then I will desist from mentioning it to them. But until I encounter someone who does actually hold that postion, I'll stick to wishing people a Merry Christmas at Christmas time.
Mark

: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:00:53 -0000, Jerry put finger to keyboard and : typed: :
: > : >Why would s/he be offended by wishing *you* a "Happy Christmas", : : Well, if he was offended by the mention of Christmas, he wouldn't have : said it.
Whhhoooosssshhh.... You just don't 'get it', do you. :~(

Perhaps this will sort things out:
Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral, winter solstice holiday, practised within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others who choose to practise their own religion as well as those who choose not to practise a religion at all;
Additionally, a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without regard to the race, creed, colour, religious, or sexual preferences of the wishees.
(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)
or maybe not!

I suspect their number is very few. Less than those Christians who are enraged when you use some other holiday salutation :-). It's fun to pull their chain :-).

"MartinS" wrote
I live in North Lincolnshire, not Hull.
But when in Rome.
John.

Or a Yorkshireman who's asked if he's from Lancashire.

Do you cross that big bridge every day?
I was born in Cleethorpes!

Too many Americans think Wales and Scotland are part of England.
"I went to England for my vatation"
"Where did you go?
"Edinburgh"

I'm getting the fact that I've never come across a non-Christian who was offended by people wishing him/her a merry Christmas. Unless you are one such, in which case please feel free to say so explicitly instead of just hinting at it.
Mark

I think that's kind of my point, really. When someone says that they prefer to use a "universal greeting" in order to avoid causing offence, what it really means is that either a) they are genuinely ignorant of the fact that hardly anyone at all is offended by the mention of Christmas, or b) what they're actually doing is deliberately *trying* to cause offence among those who would prefer to use the traditional terminology. The former is mere foolishness, the latter is deliberate mendacity.
If a non-Christian says "I prefer to say 'happy holidays' because I don't believe in the concept behind 'Christmas'", then that's both entirely honest and non-offensive. But claiming that a desire to avoid causing offence to others is very rarely honest.
Mark

: : I'm getting the fact that I've never come across a non-Christian who : was offended by people wishing him/her a merry Christmas.
So, you are "Mr Universe" and thus qualified to speak for all man kind?...

: : > The people who are offended by a mention of Christmas seem to me to be : > something of a myth. : : I suspect their number is very few. Less than those Christians who are : enraged when you use some other holiday salutation :-). It's fun to pull : their chain :-). : : -- : Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Certainly did in your case!

: : I think that's kind of my point
In YOUR opinion.
No doubt you are also one of those British cretins who expect everyone else to speak English when you are abroad and just shout when they fail to understand your wish for a full English breakfast, fish and chips and warm beer!

Five years ago I was a four-stone apology. Today I am two separate gorillas. Guy