Very sorry to hear it

At Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:05:25 +0100, message was posted by "Steve W" , including some, all or none of the following:

Better still, ensure they read several issues before embarking, then they'd realise that we are capable of being every bit as racist and intolerant as the Belgians or French.

I'm still content for them to come, but at least that way they won't get quite such a rude awakening when they arrive...

Mind you, these days they'll be in like a shot if they can run 100m in under 10s ;-)

Guy

I completely agree. When the bus exploded, it so happens that I was in the BMA building, working on a strategy to increase doctors' earnings while reducing the amount of medical treatment actually supplied. A bucketload of blood and other tissue came flying in through my window and spattered across the screen of my computer, making my work very difficult. I ran down to the street to make a complaint, and after wading through a pile of bus debris and severed limbs, oft times nearly slipping over on a sea of entrails, I finally found some people in the bus that I could complain to. They were mostly burned to a crisp, but I think they were still barely alive, and I know they were most grateful to have me shouting at them that it was entirely selfish and inconsiderate of them to get themselve blown up right outside my office.

I must admit that I did get a little frustrated by their lack of response, and one or two of them I shook by the throat, screaming that it was all their own fault anyway, and they had to pay the price for British imperialism in the 19th century.

A little later, the police arrived and took me away, and I personally feel they used unecessary force when flinging me in the back of the police van. I did hear a rumour that some of the crispies I'd been shouting at were New Zealanders, but I don't think that alters the principle, does it? We must ensure that these so-called bus and tube "victims" understand that they are GUILTY of kicking Iraqis and Saudis and Iranians and have been blundering and occupying and interfering and stealing their oil and ....

Anyway, I have to go now; it's time for my brain scan. It's been most pleasant having this little chat, and it will sustain me through the days ahead to know that at least one wholly perfect New Zealander is out there lecturing us Brits on our own history.

Cheers, Steve

"Steve W" wrote

I'm sorry but I think that is in *extremely* bad taste.

John.

Please Steve, don't joke about this. My brother *was* in the BMA building. He *did* rush out to render assistance. Luckily he was uninjured, but his friend and colleague - a Muslim - was slightly injured by flying glass, yet despite his own injuries still gave assistance to the casualties.

Yes, I see your point. Some of these people come from places where genocide is practised as a matter of state policy, and women have their breasts hacked off with machetes so they can't feed their children, and they arrive here where we have our more-or-less open entry borders, our state welfare systems, our laws and culture that criminalise intolerance and protect minority rights, our awareness programs that try to deal with even having racist thoughts, our (generally) unarmed police, our advertising campaigns exhorting victims to report racial harassment, our suppression of right-wing political movements, our international charity industries, and so on and on...

Yes, I can see how they are in for a rude awakening, and must wish they'd stayed at home....

I really don't understand why people feel it so necessary to denigrate the achievements and aspirations of this country, and what is even more annoying, to understate the huge amount of goodwill and all-round humanity that prevails here.

Cheers, Steve

John and Enzo... p..leeease!

Sorry if anyone's sensitivities is offended, but down here in London, where it actually happened (and has happened before, and undoubtedly will, again and again), how do you think we actually talk? Forget the sanitised, reverential tones of the BBC, it's the gallows humour that allows us to face reality, gets us past the horror, and most importantly, enables us to get on a tube or bus to go to work next week..... which I will have to do myself, so I don't care to be lectured by anyone about matters of geopolitics, taste, or indeed, anything to do with this matter.

That's all I have to say on this topic.

Cheers, Stever

At Sat, 9 Jul 2005 15:11:44 +0100, message was posted by "Steve W" , including some, all or none of the following:

More that, having arrived here fro (as you correctly note) often appalling regimes, expecting to find the legendary British sense of fair play, they find instead that they are vilified as spongers.

Quite. And I don't understand why some people think that the British tradition is better exemplified by racism than by fair play. But perhaps they are right. What would I know? I am partly of immigrant stock; some of my ancestors were Huguenots.

Guy

Your welcome, hope it set your mind at ease.

John,

I think Steve was making a valid point, albeit in a shocking manner, which was a response to other statements in this thread.

Jim.

Couldn't agree more ...

Here's an interesting little factoid though, during the Falklands War, New Zealand bless it's little cotton socks offered to send both of it's Frigates(*) to the North Atlantic in order to cover RN NATO duties so that more RN ships could be dispatched southwards.

(*) IOW it's entire fleet at the time

Yes, I remember. I think NZ was the only one of Britain's so-called allies to commit actual forces to the conflict?

(kim)

Not quite, the NZ vessels didn't sail south or take any part in the war, they simply took up station around the GIUK gap so that RN frigates could be released. The US sent satellite imagery (against the wishes of Ronald the clown), they also supplied munitions and leased supply vessels (one of which was bombed by an Argentinean C130 via the simple expedient of rolling the bomb out of the tail doors ... bounced of the forecastle and failed to explode) ... also South Africa put it's Simonstown naval base (which he RN had built years ago prior to the rise of socialism) on to a war footing, cleared the docks and repair yards of it's own vessels and made the whole lot available to the RN FOC no strings attached ... HMGs Gvt declined it's kind offer and chose to scuttle damaged warships that couldn't make the run home rather than take SA up on their offer and tow the ships there for repair. I understand (but I haven't seen confirmation of this) offered to permit Nimrods and strike aircraft to base in SA (which would have much reduced the run from Ascention Island)

That's not exactly true. I was in the Air Force at the time and was deployed to the Falklands during the conflict. There were two Australians who were on exchange postings with my unit who took part in hostilities. And we won't mention the US "technical advisors" who assisted with the in-combat introduction of AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles.

NZ did not commit combat forces to the conflict. Instead, as you mention, they offered the use of their Navy (which was not required - STANAVFORLANT took up the slack) and a squadron of transport aircraft (which was gratefully accepted. Kiwi aircraft took over milk runs in Europe freeing up RAF aircraft to supply Ascension). There were a lot of Commonwealth countries who provided logistical support, either in theatre or in Europe. We certainly found out who our friends are.

At Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:04:29 +0100, message was posted by "kim" , including some, all or none of the following:

if little Jimmy puts his hand in the fire, does that make it smart for you to follow suit?

Guy

If he's trying to rescue his sister from the fire, then smart doesn't enter into it. There are things that just have to be done. The fact that some people (or even most people) just don't get it doesn't change anything for those who do.

Cheers, Steve

If you are dependent on Britain for your peace and security as many countries in europe were at the time, yes.

(kim)

At Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:51:11 +0100, message was posted by "Steve W" , including some, all or none of the following:

Funny how that justification was never mentioned until after all the others had been shown to be bogus, though, isn't it?

When's the invasion of Zimbabwe scheduled? Is it before or after Rwanda?

Funny how these things only *have* to be done when there's an oilfield or oil pipeline route involved, though, isn't it?

Guy

At Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:54:42 +0100, message was posted by "kim" , including some, all or none of the following:

If the Argies had waited a bit the islands would have been handed over nice and peaceful like. They were stupid.

Brezhnev took Afghanistan And Begin took Beirut Galtieri took the Union Jack And Maggie, over lunch one day, Took a cruiser with all hands Apparently to make him give it back

"Get your filthy hands off my desert", from Pink Floyd's The Final Cut. There's nowt new under the sun.

Guy

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote

Interesting question. Should the civilised world allow attrocities to continue in these two and other similar countries?

Should we allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons with its track record of supporting terrorism? If so what would be the reaction if they supplied terrorists with the technology to create a dirty (nuclear) bomb which they detonated in London's Underground?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but I think they're worth asking.

John.