Jeboba -- sorry for your loss.

BTW, when you want to know how a countries economy is doing, do not ask politicians, look to the financial markets and the money experts. The markets are now soaring, and the nonpartisan experts are very bullish. Kerry tried to convince our citizens that they were all miserable and didn't know it. We didn't buy it. Now it's time to REALLY clean house while democrats become a permanent minority, reduced to a mere nuisance as Kerry would say, LOL.

Reply to
Frank Costa
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Well! Considering the way you think things are, how could things get worse?

I'd like to hear someone from the left really explain how the economy is going to get worse and why it's so bad now! I would challenge anyone from the left to a real debate on economic issues. Assuming of course they can refrain from rant and name calling.

Reply to
C.O.Jones

You're right. Even at our economic worst, most countries make the people of the USA look like Mr. Gotrocks.

You might have facts, but you are full of SPIN. A fact is no more than a piece of information, part of a picture. There may have been 337,000 new jobs created in October, but how many were lost? Over the past four years, how many jobs were lost vs. gained? What is the QUALITY of those new jobs? Losing a million $16+/hr full-time manufacturing jobs, and gaining 1.2 million minimum-wage, part-time burger-flipper jobs is nothing to brag about.

Neither side has it right, but both sides are so narrow-minded, stubborn and bull-headed that they can't see that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. We can't be "tax and spend" liberals, and we can't be "cut taxes and spend it anyway" conservatives either. We can't be the world's police force, but we can't bend over and take it up the key either.

Reply to
Mathew Kirsch

You need to stop getting your FACTS from the Gestapo.....FOX NEWS and Limbaugh. What is it you don't understand about the undisputed fact that more jobs have been lost under Bush than any other President in the last 70 years? Spin it all you want, the bad news is NOT going to go away.

Reply to
jim

Sir, You need to look at ALL of the facts instead of signing up to spin. Your factoid about lost jobs is less than half the story. A great many good paying jobs have been created to replace a very significant percentage of those lost. IIRC the NET loss is less than 250,000 for the last four years.

Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High

Jim, Talk about spin, why don't you tell the rest of the story? What other President got 9/11, which all but stopped the economy dead in its tracks for months and months all by itself. Add to that a recession, which he inherited. You can not, in any type of good faith, compare the losses in the economy and job sector with any other President. There just aren't enough common denominators. Other Presidents did have war to contend with, but in years past, war always meant a jump in jobs. Look at all the jobs created during WWII just in the airplane factories. If we were now fighting a conventional war, then I too bet the jobs would increase substantially. No, this time is far different than any other time in our history.

Robert

Robert

jim wrote:

Reply to
RBarkus

Reply to
Frank Costa

Sir,

It's very easy to inflate a balloon after you've let all the air out, then take credit for increasing its size. Nobody's supposed to notice that the balloon is only 2/3 as large as it was before.

You need to alleviate yourself of spin as well. The fact of the matter is, there has been an overall LOSS of jobs over the last four years. You can claim all the gains you want, but as long as the bottom line is smaller now than it was then, it's a LOSS, a black eye on the administration.

"A great many good paying jobs have been created." Perhaps a great many have been created, but a great many more have been lost. 250,000 more, by your own admission. These new "good paying jobs;" they may pay well, but do they pay as well as the old jobs that were lost?

Reply to
Mathew Kirsch

Do you expect jobs to increase every year forever? That's unrealistic and does not take into account the cyclical nature of a free market economy. The drastic surge in jobs, especially in the tech sector, during the 90's was partly an illusion. That's why they called it a bubble, and it bursted in case you forgot. Another fact, the president cannot create jobs. He cannot call up Ford and say, "Hey, maybe you should hire another 2000 workers today, what do you think"? He can create and implement policies that encourage job growth, and one that comes to mind are TAX CUTS, but even these methods only have a limited effect. It is true, the president will take the blame or the credit, that's the way it goes, but it doesn't properly reflect the reality of the situation. Every month for the past two years, democratic pundits and strategists have had a smaller and smaller number to trumpet for job losses. Now it's 250,000, next month it will be much much less, perhaps equaling or overtaking job losses. To come out even after a recession and the big hit we took on 9/11? Believe me, it could have, almost should have, been MUCH worse. 59000000+ voters agreed.

Reply to
Frank Costa

Another point that I haven't heard ANYMORE make is that the population was much much smaller during the depression, so that X number of jobs lost represented a much larger percent of the workforce. Funny how Kerry supporters forget the inconvinient stuff.

Reply to
Frank Costa

Do you have any facts to support this assertion, or is this just a hypothetical? It is true, facts are used by both sides in the art of spinning. but I wasn't spinning. Spinning would be to ONLY mention the lossed or ONLY mention the gains. I mentioned the net result, and placed it in the big picture, a picture that did indeed include a recession and devasting attack on our country. What indicators are there that a democratic president could have done better with higher taxes? John Kerry himself admitted that outsourcing cannot be prevented, and that presidents have a limited role in job growth, so who can say with a straight face that an Al Gore presidency would have resulted in millions of added jobs and a much more robust economy? That's a humorous thought.

Reply to
Frank Costa

Mathew,

How many of those lost jobs were attributable to 911? I ask that because such an event is an anomaly which can not be considered in the long term. So you might want to reconsider your spin!

Reply to
C.O.Jones

Most of the time they used numbers only instead of percentages , which can be very misleading. Population and inflation for the most part , make this years numbers in most things , larger than last year , last year more than the year before and so on and so on. The population is now more than THREE times that of 1930 , which was approx

120,000,000., so the job comparis>Another point that I haven't heard ANYMORE make is that the population was
Reply to
Ken Day

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