Visio 2000, other low-end CAD fer a laptop....

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- Existential Angst
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 4:21 PM

Awl --
OK, I just applied for a second mortgage for SW on a laptop, and was
dee-nied.
So here's Plan B.
Basically I need to stop embarrassing myself (well, embarrass myself less),
and instead of drawings on napkins for various machinists, or hauling around
effing samples, I'd like to give'em sumpn sumpn semi-dignified.
For simple stuff, nothing more complicated than, say, a gear and pawl, and
not even that -- slots, stuff that fits into slots, bars, etc.
OK....
So ahm lookin at a starter ditty, like an emachine laptop, with 2 gb, 250 gb
drive, dvd, (athlon chip in this case, but not nec'ly), etc, for a few
hundred.
What cad will work on that with no problem? Any *semi-decent* shareware?
And if not, what's the coin for low-end-but-servicable cad?
Plan C:
How about this:
I have an old copy of Visio 2000 and Intellicad 98, that I really got banged
for, hard..... right before they sold out/went belly up.
I actually used Visio for a while, did some nice stuff, but eventually just
went back to, well, my speadsheets -- and napkins.
There was a bit of al learning curve with Visio, don't know if it would be
useful to resurrect. Opinons?
Microsoft bought Visio, which you'll find in some of their office packages,
which I have.
But guess what they left out??
Why, the effing CAD module, of course!!!!!
Basically all MicroShit Visio will do is glorified flow charts..... Give me
a fukn break.....
MS bought Visio for $1.3 billion, and at one time offered the full cad
version (visavis the flowcharting/diagramming silliness). Amazon actually
has it.

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Iny opinions on Visio 2000? Anyone use it? I see there is some support
for it, from googling a bit.
Better alternatives?
Man, I need to be held.....

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- Ned Simmons
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 4:35 PM

A friend runs Alibre on a not-to-fancy laptop. It will open (most) SW files. I've never played with Alibre myself, but have only heard praise for its bang for the buck.

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- F. George McDuffee
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 4:44 PM

See

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prices see

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$ to get started

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let the group know how ypu make out.

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- cavelamb
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 5:21 PM

Just go buy Design CAD - under $100 retail. Absolutely wonderful CAD.
Existential Angst wrote:

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- Existential Angst
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 6:33 PM

Heh, I feel held already!
Inyone agree/diagree with CaveLamb??
IMSI has v20 for $49!!

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Wasn't an amc regular an imsi guy? Fred Smith?? Or was he with Vector? What happened to Vector??
Alibre claims to be offering sumpn sumpn for free... "Instant Download, Full Featured No Limits, No Cost, No Joke" .....we'll see whazzup..... already I see a 30 day limit....
Alibre's standard ditty is like $197, altho they seem to be able to make it up on the back with training shit, manuals, etc. Still, not bad.

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- Ned Simmons
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 6:52 PM

Don't lose sight of the fact that you're comparing apples to oranges here. DesignCAD is a 2D drawing program -- what Autocad was doing in 1987. Alibre is a 3D parametric modeller with capabilities comparable to SW, Inventor, Solid Edge, etc.
You may want to stick with 2D drafting if that's all you need. I still use Autocad for schematics and other simple drafting tasks. But I haven't designed a part in 2D in over 10 years.

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- Joe788
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sat, May 8, 2010 6:58 PM

Does it half to be a laptop? You can get a lot more computer for a lot less money in a desktop.
If I were you, I'd get this computer from Costco:

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And then buy Alibre, and spend the time and money to really learn the software.
You'll be able to do anything you ever wanted.

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- cavelamb
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 2:31 AM

I don't mean to be rude, Ned, but No Way, Jose!
DC is *NOT* a 2D program.
ALL of this was done with DC2000

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Full 3D with good quality rendering. And extremely easy to use!
The gravity point feature is unique to DC only!

- M
- Martin H. Eastburn
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:25 AM

I is apparent that this person has no idea what Visio can and will do. I've drawn hundreds of data sheet IC designs with it.
My wife uses it to draw landscaping for the 7 acres we have to play with. I have a pro package for some of that - and more - but it has plants and all. It can do all sorts of jobs. It is far from the little line drawing cad you think.

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- Robin S.
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:58 AM

Perhaps it is not a 2D drafting software, but it's not a 3d parametric mechanical design software either. Looks like TurboCAD is 3d parametric. Hovers around Alibre's price level.
I bought and use Alibre. I haven't had a lot of work for it but it does seem to work. Not entirely bug free, but a lot (lot) cheaper than SolidWorks. I can certainly create true models of mechanical parts, assemble them, then create drawings for manufacture.
Regards,
Robin

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- Existential Angst
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 5:24 AM

Does it half to be a laptop? You can get a lot more computer for a lot less money in a desktop.
If I were you, I'd get this computer from Costco:

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And then buy Alibre, and spend the time and money to really learn the software.
You'll be able to do anything you ever wanted. ===================================================
Yeah, it does have to be a laptop.
According to Ned, Alibre runs on a "not too fancy laptop" -- hopefully that means 2 GB, with whatever video cards the laptops have.
I'll check Alibre's site for system requirements.

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- Ned Simmons
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 3:34 PM

Before you get too annoyed with me, look at the page EA pointed to, which says at the top, "DesignCAD v20 is a versatile and easy-to-use 2D CAD program."

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There are apparently at least 2 versions of DesignCAD, and the one EA is looking at is strictly 2D.
But much of what I said comparing 2D DC to Alibre applies to the 3D version as well. From what I gather from the IMSI site, 3D DC is a 3D drafting package comparable to Autocad. Alibre is a 3D parametric modeller, like Solidworks and Inventor. The difference is dramatic. If a guy is faced with learning a new software, and the price of admission isn't too steep, I can't imagine putting the effort into learning a 3D drafting program when a parametric modeller is available.
There's a very general description of the differences under "Using CAD" here:

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- steamer
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:16 PM

--Wait 'til another netbook comes up on woot.com They're only a couple hundred bucks now since Ipad came out and they're pretty good.

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- Existential Angst
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:17 PM

Nice stuff!!
Do you think this would have been an easier or more difficult process with Alibre? Other packages?
What is the gravity point feature?

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- Existential Angst
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:24 PM

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Just a note on the use of "parametric".
In math, physics, parametric has a very specific connotation. For example, when you throw a ball off a cliff, you generally think of y = f(x), ie, the ball's trajectory in space.
However, the parametric equations of motion are simply breaking y and x up as separate function of t, so that instead of y = f(x), now you have x = f(t), and y = g(t) .
Specifically, this works out that y = kx^2 nonparametrically, while x = V t, and y = 1/2 a t^2 parametrically. Heh, if I'm wrong here, this would explain a lot.... :) :(
But as I said in my other reply, it seems that the use of parametric in cad means more-or-less formula-based, and that the difficulty the article referred to was in editing these various shapes, forms, if you don't know what formula, interpolation was used to begin with. Sorta....

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- stans4
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:26 PM

Have only used the Visio with Orfice 2003-2007, it's intended as a work-flow tool to replace guys standing at chalkboards and drawing boxes. Never saw any CAD bits beyond the pretty-fied box-drawing stage. Supposedly, you can feed your fancy boxes into one of MS's other programs and get code out, never got to that stage. So the tool has been changed past what it started as. Old program versions come with no support and no bug-fixes, OK if you can live with it. Sometimes they won't run on later OS versions, more troubling. The local MS-blessed training outfit doesn't even offer training for Visio.
I used TurboCAD for 2D stuff a looong time ago, I'd look at that first, myself. Was easy enough to figure out how to work it. There are some other cheap CAD programs out there, you might see if they've got the features you need.
Stan

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- cavelamb
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:35 PM

Depends on what you want to do.
Giving Ned his due, I'm a draftsman, not a modeler. And the 3D version of Design CAD has a button that turns it into 2D.
Much of what I do involves real drafting rather than modeling.
The lofting examples are probably the most involved drafting anybody will ever do. I'm confident that those examples are fair to .01 inches. (!)
Someone who uses Alibre will have to decide it that's possible there.
Yes, you could make a picture of a hull with a modeling package.
BUT...
There is no way (that I've ever seen) to insure that the hull is fair.
There is no way (same) to generate accurate full sized patterns to build it.
As for ease of use...
DC's gravity point grab feature is just that. Lets you grab the nearest point with a single click...
I learned Autocad first.
But when I found DC, I switched in a heart beat and never looked back.

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- Existential Angst
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 4:56 PM

What's the functional or intended difference between the two? And how does one program facilitate one vs. the other?

I thought Visio, Cadkey had something like that. Gravity = snap to??

I imagine it could be a full-time job to gain enough fluency in all the cad packages out there to make the ultimate informed decision! And who has time for that?
I think the "review process", in general, is highly flawed, as you need a reviewer with A LOT of differing cad experience, AND a reader who has enough reference points to grok what the reviewer is talking about.
Note that a "reviewer" is a lot different than a "user" sharing his own insights. Reviewers, afaict, never have any insights.
Ultimately, it seems one almost has to learn the hard way! I guess that's what trial versions are for!!
Altho, from having brought this topic up numerous times before, it seems that DC and Alibre may be among the final choices, just on intuition. Both seem to have good tutorials as well, at tolerable prices. Seems to me they should be included, but wtf....

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- RogerN
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 5:48 PM

I used Autocad often at work, is DC pretty similar? I type in stuff with one hand and use the mouse with the other hand, are the commands the same or similar? I started with AutoCad 12 for DOS and prefer typing in over clicking icons. Before AutoCad I used TurboCad, before that CADPAK 64 for my Commodore 64 :-) I was capable with TurboCad but it wasn't very similar to AutoCad as best I can remember.
Basically I'd like something that I can use at home that is similar to using AutoCad at work, the more similar they are, the easier it would be.
RogerN

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- cavelamb
  
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posted
12 years ago

Sun, May 9, 2010 9:00 PM

Most of the Autocad power users that I've known have a macro library that makes the program really useful.
In that respect, you could (in theory) re-design the human interface to your hearts content. And AC *NEEDS* that (IMHO) to be suable at all.
The DC power users can do that too. So maybe your key definitions could be reworked to more match ACad.
I don't bother with it. I just use the regular DC keyboard commands (left hand) and do a little blues riff on the mouse in my right...
Might want to ask your questions at the forum where the big dogs draw.

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They know more about that kind of customizing than I do.