Rogue Computer Sellers on Ebay--Not FCC Compliant--Cheap Parts

Who up to December was posting as "Numba Bidness", but found it necessary to morph into "Roy L. Fuchs" after earning several usenet kook awards:

He an expert on everything, if you haven't already noticed.

Kadaitcha Man did.

On 4 Feb 2006 17:46:20 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk Gave us:

What part of "complete system not tested" do you not understand?

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:31:01 -0500, Keith Gave us:

You're a goddamned retard, boy.

Hi, Numby! Still foaming away, I see.

This certainly seems like a law looking for a problem. Do we really have a big problem with home built computers crashing airliners or something? I p[robably have more homebuilt computers running than anyone else here and I never have seen any evidence of interferance on anything (TV, radio, stereo or any of the other things I have here) I also had PCs running in an IBM office with all sorts of other stuff and no problems. Since this will dissipate at the square of the distance, the idea it is bothering a neighhbor or detectible from the street is ludicrous.

. . .

. . .

These are brand new computers that I'm talking about, not used ones and it looks like thousands of them have been sold. However, if there are enough of these illegal computers sold to individual buyers, It's possible, I suppose, that they might someday have a hard time re-selling them. These illegal computers are easy to spot since they don't have any regulatory labels on the case.

The FCC has made it very easy and inexpensive for these computer manufacturers to comply with the law. There's no good reason why they shouldn't do so.

On 5 Feb 2006 18:01:12 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk Gave us:

I don't know if I have EVER seen a PC that does carry the label(s), aside from an IBM PC from the old days.

They aren't "illegal" at worst they would/could be called "non-conformal".

Jeez, get off the soap box.

There is no difference. The point is that eBay is not required to police PArt 15. There *are* laws regarding the advertizing of firearms and

19-channel CB radios, and such. THere are no such laws WRT Personal Computers. All they're doing is advertizing other's sales. They aren't sellign anything.

You suppose a *lot*. The fact is that this area is pretty wide open and unless a huge problem is found (stress "huge"), the FCC will do nothing. IT's certainly not going to force the inspection of every used computer that comes up for sale (think about doing the same for TVs and MicroWaves).

I don't have a problem here. They should, but I'm not really sure it'll do anything positive. The intent of the "open box" rule was to get the suppliers of components to do the work that the "whit box" builders couldn't economically do (thus wouldn't). Components not in compliance can be refused entry into the US market, so that's where the FCC decided to attack the problem. I can't disagree with the logic, though you seem to have an issue with white-box builders, for some reason.

Really? Compaq's *never* carried FCC lables? What about current IBM (Lenovo) ThinkPads? Fuchs you're *STUPID*.

It is illegal to sell non-conforming products, at least technically.

Yikes! I hate to agree with Fuchs, but...

No, but the issue really is communications. If my computer is messing up your (compliant) TV, someone has a problem (and it's not you). THe fact is that this is rare (at worst) and the FCC isn't going tbe interested unless there is a *huge* problem.

I doubt it. ;-)

The far-field radiated intensity drops off as 1/r**2, but there are other effects that are not so nice. Practically, you're correct though. UNless the componetns are a mess (bad enough that they likely won't work) radiated EMI isn't a huge problem. I know people who have gotten into trouble doing nasty things near airports, though. The FCC *will* knock on your door if you're a bad boy!

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:38:34 -0500, Keith Gave us:

What makes you think I have ever seen one of those, dipshit?

You are the stupid one. Learn how to read, then spend a couple decades retraining your comprehension.

Oh... that's right... you are hard wired stupid. No retrain available.

You're right. How stupid of me to even think you'd seen anything built in the last twenty years.

You're a big one to lecture others on reading comprehension, fuchs.

At least it ain't limp like yours.

Here's an example of a power supply without approvals or at least its not marked. This is a "Powmax AG II 480 Watt". I'm sure this one is not marked since I happen to have one. It sells for less than $20 and doesn't have an FCC label or any safety labels either:

Note that the sale of this power supply is absolutely legal in the U.S.--at least as far as I know. I imagine that the sellers (or re-sellers) could be subject to a law suit, though, if a child was electrocuted or if the supply started a fire if it doesn't have UL. The sale of a power supply without FCC approval does, however, become illegal when a Mom and Pop shop puts it in a computer and sells it.

Here's another example--this one is a 550W. I don't have one of these, but it looks very much like the 480W model that I do have. It's a POWMAX AG II PSAG550A:

An interesting thing about this power supply is that it is being marketed as having "UL, CB, CE" approvals (but not FCC). However, if you look at the pictures provided in the "Image Viewer", there doesn't appear to be any labels at all on it.

This power supply sells for only $16.99. Here are some example customer reviews:

"I guess I paid for what I got. Had it about 60 days. It seemed to do all right when I installed it. Started smelling and burnt up...."

"You get what you pay for. Burned out in 4 months. Very disappointed. . ."

"This power supply lasted less then 30 days before a coil burnt up. My old 400W was better . . ."

For a picture of a power supply that does have an FCC label on it (and UL/TUV/CB/CUL) look at the Antec SP-400 pictures at:

Interestingly, this supply also has an "N" mark (Nemko) that isn't documented. According to their website, "NEMKO is a private, independent testing and certification body that can offer technical testing . . . with a view to the protection of human life, the environment and valuable property". This is the sort of power supply that I want in the computer in my home.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:14:38 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk Gave us:

If it passes those other certs, it very likely passes FCC as well.

Since it isn't an actual computer device, ie high frequency digital motherboard, it likely doesn't need to either. Though being a switching power supply, one would suppose that it could generate interference. Still the CE cert has RFI EMI requirements in them, IIRC.

That is also an El Cheapo brand. The price should tell anyone with half a brain something. You know what "they" say about getting what one pays for.

Oh BOY! It has a light in it!

You *could* wait for Fry's or such to put a name brand supply on sale. Then for twice that money, you would get 5 times the product.

-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering,freelance electrician FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr ? ?????? ??? ?????? news: snipped-for-privacy@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Notice a major mistake on the first ad"15/220 Volts"instead of 115/220 Volts.I check my invoice"Case midi tower braintrust 300 Watt"30 euros

03-22-2004 and still is running well...I can check its specs if you would like me to.