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Typical mains power for mid-range PC?

To measure surface temp, yes.

The remaining question is what is the reasonable amount of effort to go to, to get a still not quite applicable reading.

I'm wondering if you even meant epoxy, or did you mean grease?

again... of the surface temp.

You are arguing towards an ideal that is non-applicable to the final goal. It will be a higher temp, it maybe a certain % more accurate, but the remaining issue was whether the additional effort was worthwhile since we are not trying to determine an epoxy breakdown number.

If you want a viable heat reading you must at least measure the temp at a short length from a good thermal junction. The top of a plastic epoxy isn't that.

Just, NO. If there is a runaway situation and you're measuring epoxy temp, your device is probably dead already by the time the runaway trend has occured long enough to be seen as a runaway. Setting a peak shutdown threshold would work better, and having it automated would be necessary. It'll still need rely on a more accurate measurement method than surface temp of an epoxy carrier- remember the context there, these are chips on a hard drive PCB, not something dissimilar.

Reply to
kony
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You are pretending to know more than is possible.

FACT- no imager can account for the random variations in 'sinking due to different in chip thickness, epoxy thickness, chip 'sinking method, etc.

I have no doubt this can be achieved with surface temp. Unfortunately you failed to see why it's not a desirable goal to reach high precision with a surface temp, just a waste of time. It does look swell on a web page though, is this what led you to believe it's accurate?

The relative precision of the measurement device/method is not as important as the validity of the test itself.

This is amusing. You don't have a clue about chip temps and then think someone else doesn't know the obvious aspects of IR measurement?

One last time: You went wrong the moment you though getting a precision reading of an epoxy surface was a useful end. It can be assimilated into a more complete set of data, but by itself is not an end-goal by any stretch.

Reply to
kony

I think someone replaced Rod with a bot.

Reply to
kony

kony wrote

Not in this particular case.

None of those have any relevance what so ever to what is being measured THE SURFACE TEMPERATURE.

And that is ALL that can be measured unless the ic has internal temperature diodes etc.

Its going to measure surface temps much more accurately than any form of stuck on sensor ever will, essentially because any form of stuck on sensor CHANGES the thermal behaviour of what is being measured.

Its completely trivial to measure how well it actually performs.

Yes, but any form of stuck on sensor will ALWAYS be worse.

Any form of stuck on sensor will ALWAYS be worse.

Mindless waffle.

Reply to
Rod Speed

kony wrote

Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought, or being able to bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag either.

Reply to
Rod Speed

xModem,

I suggest: Just filter rapid-fire rodney out!

It's so peaceful afterwards until people take his bait again. He hypnotizes them to himself.

Reply to
Ed Light

I guess I take some sort of perverse pleasure in watching someone like him make a complete and utter asshole of themselves. His lack of originality is getting old though, and will probably the reason I'll eventually killfile him.

Have to admit, it's been a long time since there's been a troll in here who can't get along with *anybody*.

Reply to
xModem

Yes, and it is why high precision measurement of the surface is a pointless exercise by itself. Only in the context of substantially more data is it useful.

Reply to
kony

kony wrote

No it isnt when checking what surface temps you are getting with something like a hard drive.

You dont need to know core temps with those sorts of ics.

Which might just be why they dont bother to include internal thermal diodes.

Wrong with something like a hard drive.

ALL you need to do is check the surface temps that way and compare them with surface temps seen with a substantial airflow to check if the airflow is making any real difference at all to the surface temps and to see if the surface temps with no forced airflow are reasonable. And they are with any decently designed hard drive.

Reply to
Rod Speed

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:29:57 -0400, kony Gave us:

Bullshit.

Ripple has a very specific definition, and that ain't it.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:31:49 -0400, kony Gave us:

You are beginning to get tedious.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:31:49 -0400, kony Gave us:

No shit. That is what *I* have been saying the whole time.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:32:37 -0400, kony Gave us:

Unless you buy a reputable brand name device, that is likely all you will get form your normal list is sub par, "low end overrated CRAP".

One only gets what one pays for.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:37:22 -0400, kony Gave us:

STFU. You are starting to sound stupid.

It IS required to reduce it below the maximum allowable in any industrial spec that one is claiming to be compliant with. DOH!

You continually ignore the fact that THAT IS NOT RIPPLE.

IS ALWAYS SPECED. A PC is ON all the time when it is on. That IS

100% duty cycle. Doh!

The ATX12V spec is for full rated load at continuous duty.

Doh!

The spec includes temperature requisites.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:51:12 -0400, kony Gave us:

You are like a broken record. Did you and Rod go out to dinner together or something?

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:51:12 -0400, kony Gave us:

It most certainly is in a digital system where the voltages are well below the old TTL levels.

Guess what, chucko... a PC has ripple compliance requirements.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:51:12 -0400, kony Gave us:

Doesn't matter. The spec standard for the supplies that feed a PC are spec'd at steady state full load.

Get a clue.

Doesn't matter.

No, it isn't. Ther are many factors in the design of a multiple output supply designed for digital applications. If the transient response test is taken from no load to full load at the throw of a switch, the dynamic loading, and recovery time will show up on the scope. There is an overshoot, or not depending on how well tuned the feedback loop has been designed.

The fact remains that if the ripple is high, the computer will get false highs more often and crash more often. The power supply for a PC is one of the more critical components.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:51:12 -0400, kony Gave us:

That has to be one of the most stupid things you've said yet.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:51:12 -0400, kony Gave us:

Full load ripple is a very good indicator of the performance level of a supply.

If it can push it's declared capacity, and maintain low ripple levels while having a high efficiency, one can be sure that the design is a quite viable one.

Ther is no way to "cheat" a ripple spec at full load, as you erroneously claimed.

Maybe you grew up with fool loads.

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:51:12 -0400, kony Gave us:

Do you not even realize that the non compliant supplies have far far more than "a few millivolts" of ripple to quell?

Reply to
Phat Bytestard

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