formula for setting safe combo lock to custom combination

I have a gun safe with a cheap combination lock. I want a custom combination. There is no key to change the combo, so I will have to drill out and move the pins in the disks.

What is the formula or method to set the combination to a custom sequence?

At first I thought this would be a breeze. After *more* thought, I realized that changing the location of the first pin would change all three numbers.

Thanks, Tom

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan
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DO NOT MESS WITH THIS!!!! It is obvious from your post that you do not have the slightest idea of what you are doing. First, a locksmith that is familiar with safes would not be drilling holes to set a combination. Second, we do not even know what lock you are working with and cannot comment. This is like you asking how to get to the

7-11 in the next town with us not even knowing where you live.

Most safes, even cheap ones allow for changing combinations. Not necessarily to a "custom set" of numbers though. Usually you have to have a decent lock in order to set a custom combination. Even then, there are certain restrictions.

Dennis

Reply to
Dennis

I'm no expert but I very seriously doubt that you have to drill anything to change the combo. If you do I would replace the lock with a real lock, S&G

6730 or anything else that has the same footprint and will fit if at all possible. Every safe lock I have ever gotten my hands on had some provision for changing a combo without doing any cutting, drilling, etc. Link to some photos of the lock or at least provide the make and model.
Reply to
Tim Mathews

This has lockout written all over it. If there is really no way to change the combo (I doubt it) then the lock is junk and you need a better one, if there is a way to change it and you still think it needs to be drilled etc then you really shouldn't be working on it. Being that usenet exists to provide information I don't usually say this but in this case I'm gonna make an exception: Leave it alone and call a locksmith.

Reply to
Steve

No, it is obvious that YOU are the one who does not understand. First, I said nothing about drilling a hole. Second, I ALREADY SAID, it's a cheap gun safe lock. Have you never worked on a gun safe?

The question I asked, and that you obviously don't know the answer to, revolves around the physical relationship between three rotating disks with pins in them, and a mathematical formula which describes this relationship. It doesn't get any more basic than this. If you don't understand enough about the topic to answer my question, why not simply remain silent?

This is why I rarely come to the Usenet anymore. The real pros went home a decade ago when the know-it-alls moved in.

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

No, it is obvious that YOU are the one who does not understand. First, I said nothing about drilling a hole. Second, I ALREADY SAID, it's a cheap gun safe lock. Have you never worked on a gun safe? The few I've seen have crap for locks.

The question I asked, and that you obviously don't know the answer to, revolves around the physical relationship between three rotating disks with pins in them, and a mathematical formula which describes that relationship. It doesn't get any more basic than this.

If you don't understand enough about the topic to answer my question, why not simply remain silent? This is why I rarely come to the Usenet anymore. The real pros went home a decade ago when the nasty know-it-alls moved in.

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

Thanks for your polite response, Tim. The method for changing the combination on a lock depend on what kind of wheel the lock has. The four I know of are mesh change, screw change, key change, and hole change. The lock in my gun safe is a rudimentary hole change lock. To change the combination in a hole change lock, you move the pins. Since the pins are driven in, they must be drilled out.

However, all that is besides the point. I already know how to change the combination. What I had been asking about was the mathematical formula behind the relationship of the pins to the combination. This relationship is the same regardless of what kinds of wheel is inside the lock.

Maybe an old-timer would know what I am talking about, or maybe a lock maker, but probably not a locksmith. Today, a locksmith would simply replace the lock with a simple key-change lock and be done.

I figured posting the question couldn't hurt. And it would be fun to talk with the guy who knew the answer. That guy would probably know what the Mossman collection was, for example. Most locksmiths wouldn't have a clue. Not that I am disparaging locksmiths, after all I'm one myself.

A 6700 series would be my choice, too. I'd love to get rid of the existing lock, which is a POS all the way around. But the throw is only 1/2", not nearly as much as the internals it would need to interface with. So a lock change would entail a complete reworking of the safe's innards, not to mention welding on another mounting plate, since the only other rmethod of mounting the lock would entail drilling and tapping the existing mounting plate and the door itself.

Believe me, it was much easier to drill out the wheel pins and leave the rest alone. It took about two hours to think the problem though and draw up a spreadsheet which could solve the problem in reverse. And about thirty minutes to drill the pins and move them. I'd post the details, but the responses I got to this message give me the impression that the effort would be wasted.

Please see my comments above.

Thanks, Tom

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

You say you said nothing about drilling. What part of the following sentence that you wrote is wrong "so I will have to drill out and move the pins in the disks."

Yes, I do know about wheel (disks) packs and resetting combinations by using change keys and removal and resetting of wheel packs.

I really love the amateurs coming here and telling the pros that they do not know what they are doing. The fact that this is a "Gun Safe" has nothing to do with this. A cheap lock, perhaps. Total lack of information given means that it is impossible to give an answer. Obviously you do not know how many different type of combination lock mechanisms there are. There are "hundreds" of cheap ones.

Oh well, I guess I am spitting in the wind anyway. Someone who wants an answer for a question without giving facts and does not want to hear about it does not need help anyway. I see this everyday when someone tries to "help" out and the end result is the cost to correct the situation is now double what it would have been before the lock was destroyed.

I guess the name "Dangerous Dan" fits.

Dennis

Dangerous_Dan wrote:

Reply to
Dennis

You say you said nothing about drilling. What part of the following sentence that you wrote is wrong "so I will have to drill out and move the pins in the disks."

Yes, I do know about wheel (disks) packs and resetting combinations by using change keys and removal and resetting of wheel packs.

I really love the amateurs coming here and telling the pros that they do not know what they are doing. The fact that this is a "Gun Safe" has nothing to do with this. A cheap lock, perhaps. Total lack of information given means that it is impossible to give an answer. Obviously you do not know how many different type of combination lock mechanisms there are. There are "hundreds" of cheap ones.

Oh well, I guess I am spitting in the wind anyway. Someone who wants an answer for a question without giving facts and does not want to hear about it does not need help anyway. I see this everyday when someone tries to "help" out and the end result is the cost to correct the situation is now double what it would have been before the lock was destroyed.

I guess the name "Dangerous Dan" fits.

Dennis

Dangerous_Dan wrote:

Reply to
Dennis

Don't be silly. If I were locked out, I wouldn't know what kind of lock was inside. But since I said it was not a key change lock, I'm already in. Plus, no part of my question or its answer would help open a locked safe. You didn't read carefully, or don't know what you are talking about.

Educate yourself. You have already proven you aren't the expert you pretend to be.

I said that already, so you didn't read very carefully. Notice I said "cheap combination lock", "gun safe" and "no key change". Do you really think it didn't occur to me to swap out the lock for a real one?

If you knew what you were talking about you would know that retrofitting a new lock would be WAY more work than its worth. Besides, no thief is going sandpaper their fingertips and diddle the lock on a gun safe. They would bring in a plasma cutter and cut the top out. So the lock is irrelevant. How about if you buy a clue, Steve?

As I said, educate yourself. Drilling out the pins is exactly how the combination is changed on a hole change wheel.

This being the Usenet, my question has been half-assed by several pseudo-know-it-alls who don't know the answer to my question, and don't know how to figure out the answer. Apparently all you CAN do, Steve, is pretend to be an expert with bluff and bullshit.

But I'm no genius either. It was foolish to post a question on the Usenet which requires actual knowledge. By the time I received three non-answers, I had already figured out the answer myself, performed the minor surgery to change the combo, and buttoned up the safe again. I learned a long time ago that no real expert would waste his time wading though this rubbish. What was I thinking?

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

I said drill the pins, not drill the lock. This is simple English.

That's nice, but I already said it's NOT A KEY CHANGE LOCK. If you don't know what I'm talking about, why not zip it?

Lack of information isn't the problem. I gave enough info to answer my question. If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't have mentioned your experience with key change locks. And although there are hundreds of cheap combination locks, the formula I asked about would apply to them all. I don't really have the time to give you an entire education.

That's nice and all, but it doesn't explain the situation in the least. Nobody has given even the slightest bit of help, and I gave all the relevant info, nobody here seems to have a clue about anything but key change locks. And the lock is not destroyed, it is working perfectly. But I certainly do agree you are spitting in the wind. I can't understand why.

It certainly does.

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

You mean the amateurs on this list telling me I don't know what I'm doing? Naw, it's pretty standard on the Usenet. It would be a miracle if anyone here is over the age of 21.

The people who have responded to my post have a hard time understanding simple English, so it's no surprise they are befuddled by the simplest form of combination lock.

Go back to cutting keys, boy, until you have something intelligent to say.

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

Dear Genius, He meant that you're likely to lock yourself out after you modify the lock.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Well, sir, I guess I'll go back to cutting keys. After 21 years in the trade, you'd think I could offer some advice. Well, I can. But not after being insulted. Good luck, Pa, you'll need it.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

He meant that, did he? And now we are supposed to argue over verb tense? Another poser who can't say anything intelligent about the original post, only side-topic bullshit. Some other time, thanks.

Maybe you change combos and then slam the door without testing, Stormin. Not me. Mine open three times before the door closes. You should try it, works great.

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

What is wrong with you, honestly? I never said anything about drilling holes in anything. What is your mother tongue? Jeez, it's in the material YOU quoted.

We can get through this together, you and me. Get yourself a cup of frothy international coffee. Sit in your comfy chair. It's all in the previous messages: The combination is already changed. The safe opens perfectly with the new combination. I know it makes you sad that you are mistaken, but those are the facts.

Why is this so hard for you? It's not like what I suggested was all that tough. Well, maybe for you it is.

Still got that cup of international coffee? Inhale deeply and read this very slowly: The combination was changed by the time you wrote your first doofus message. This time yesterday, I opened the safe three times with the new combo. Done and done. How? In the time it took you to dream up your off-topic nonsense, I wrote a spreadsheet to solve the problem backwards. Drilled the pins, reinstalled them in the new positions. No holes drilled in anything. That's how a hole change lock works. Read very, very slowly and it will eventually sink in.

Apparently, your blustery bullshit is just camouflage to hide the fact that you don't even understand the question. You're the pin head that kept talking about key change locks after I made it perfectly clear that this is a hole change lock, not a key change lock. Do you know what Google is? A search for "hole change lock" will help you tremendously.

Grade school children can understand simple language like this. Why can't you?

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

You haven't changed the combo by drilling holes in something that doesn't need holes drilled in it yet.

But since I said it was not a key change lock, I'm

From what I've read so far you opening a locked safe would be the least of my worries. You permanently locking one would be near the top of the list.

You didn't read carefully, or don't know what you are

Since you seem to have comprehension issues I'll spell it out for you. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A VAGUE IDEA. DONT MESS WITH IT OR IT WILL NEVER WORK RIGHT AGAIN. simple enough that time?

Reply to
Steve

Nobody could give you any useful information based on the original post because you didn't provide any useful information. You have some lock on some safe that you know nothing about and want to change the combo on with a drill. That last bit alone is enough to make anybody who knows anything at all about safe work have nightmares. As far as intelligent the most inteligent comment anyone could make based on what you originally said is for you to leave it the hell alone, and I think almost, if not everybody, who responded gave you that VERY intelligent advice which I'm sure you will ignore.

Reply to
Steve

As I've said repeatedly, the question I asked required almost no information. Spinning disks with pins, that's it. Since you don't know the answer to that question, you want to fart around. It's childish.

Apparently you are mistaken, since I changed the combination easily yesterday. Besides, I'm the one teaching you about the various types of wheel locks.

I hate to be repetitious, but that's how you change the combo on a hole change lock. Please do a simple Google. It's not that tough.

Let's fix those nightmares, shall we? Type

formatting link
Then type "HOLE CHANGE" LOCK. Be sure to put "hole change" in quotes so Google treats it like a phrase. Click any of the links that relate to combination locks, and you will stop having nightmares.

The amazing thing is, a hole change lock is the simplest combination lock there is. You seem flummoxed by the concept. Where did you go to school? Oops, perhaps that's the problem.

Reply to
Dangerous_Dan

I officially dub this topic DEAD! Please do not give it CRP.

Reply to
Erik

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