Re: 'smithing/'picking and appropriate channels

Jul 09, 2003 Last reply: 23 years ago 3 Replies


Subject: 'smithing/'picking and appropriate channels


>From: Rob Andrews snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com
>Date: 7/9/2003 1:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Xns93B382CCC8BA1fatherbob70yahoocom@24.28.95.154>
>
>I just thought I'd point out something I haven't seen anyone else mention
>in the (at times somewhat tedious) debates on revealing lock arcana in
>alt.locksmithing and other forums.
>
>At this point it seems a reasonably well-known fact that there's an active
>email list for lockpickers and lock hobbyists (membership tends to stay
>around 200), and a few of the locksmiths who frequent this newsgroup have
>even plugged it on a few occasions when it seemed appropriate. That's not
>the point I'm making, though.
>
>What I think is worth note is that none of the people I've seen called
>various non-friendly names for sharing compromise info within the
>locksmithing community (such as in trade journals) also share their
>information with the LockSports email list. Not one. There seems to be a
>clear divide between the people who make this info available to locksmiths
>and those who share it with the recreational set. (Although there do seem
>to be some locksmiths on the LockSports list.)
>
>I didn't really notice this until someone mentioned Matt Blaze on the
>LockSports list. I'm pretty sure he's not a subscriber of the list. I
>suspect that any information of his that does eventually make it to
>LockSports will be at least indirectly related to the amount of fuss made
>about it in this open forum. By making it seem exciting here, it will seem
>more enticing somewhere else.
>
>I'm not really trying to tell people what to do. I just have to wonder if
>sometimes people's heated comments might wind up bringing about results
>they hadn't intended.
>
>-Rob Andrews
>

It's really pretty simple. We are payed to protect peoples security. Not to compromise it. Therefore when it comes to giving SPECIFIC information on defeating a certain lock or mechanism to the general public 99% of locksmiths are not going to do it. There is plenty of discussion with regard to security weaknesses within the trade. There is really no need for security professionals to discuss specific weaknesses outside the trade. Even if you think that that is truely beneficial there are plenty of outsiders, if you will, who are more than happy to discover and publish security exloits. No valid reason for us to do it as well.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Putyourspamhere) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m16.aol.com:

My observation (and I confess I haven't read every last post on alt.locksmithing over the last few years) was that some of the really excited discussion seems to be about information shared only within the trade. Meaning that outsiders wouldn't know about it so much if it wasn't made into such a hot topic here. Aside from a few really rare exceptions, most non-locksmiths just don't have access to TNL and LL, for instance, and therefore have no knowledge of what's in such trade journals until people explore it in depth here.

Aside from a brief comment about TNL a year or two ago, I never even see the journals mentioned on LockSports. (And I don't know of any other hobby- related lock forums, so it seems like a very representative sample.)

Non professionals are not likely to get a lot of compromising information directly from individuals in the trade. This doesn't mean that a lot of information is not available to someone willing to do research and invest some time and in some cases money. Virtually all locksmithing related information can be obtained via some combination of those things. This is well known. Very little is truely secret from someone of reasonable intelligence willing to invest in learning. It is also well known that those with a legitimate interest will not mind investing time and money to learn rather than simply asking for all to be told. Frankly I'm always amazed when someone comes here asking for a masterlock combo by serial for free. The security implications not-withstanding why on earth would we want to simply give away information we have had to pay for?

This is likely because most of the material in the professional journals is unrelated to lockpicking.

Actually, I've subscribed to that list on and off over the last few months. Some of the hobbyists are doing some relatively serious security analysis, in fact, and the Europeans (especially the German and Dutch groups) may actually be ahead of the industry with regard to finding innovative new attacks.

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