Metalwork in schools ?

I find when i talk about cnc people fall asleep! I am a high school drop out and program my own cnc machines I bought my own machbines because no one thought i could do it i still cannot get a job as a programmer than i come home and make parts on my own machines!!!!!!! I am obsesed some time i get so depressed i cannot get out of bed

And the same issue exists at the Community College level. I looked into taking a couple of courses to learn how to use my lathe and mill and found I first had to take full semester courses on the basics like how to use a micrometer plus the classes are not offered at night. I realize they don't want someone holding up the entire class but it would be nice to have an general metalworking class. It worked fine for welding, the school had a course that covered arc primarily plus some mig, tig and gas in one semester and done two evenings a week. The few things I've welded haven't fallen apart yet and that's what I was trying to learn.

Steve.

Hi Dean. Just curious - are you training at UWA? Teaching?

-- Jeff (teaching metalwork - 20km west of Sydney)

All our local (Minneapolis Metro area) high schools have cut way back on ANY hands on classes. Metalwork, welding, woodwork, you name it, all gone. My kids went to the last "tech" class given before they gutted out the space for more regular classrooms. Even the photography class had no cameras (although they had a leftover darkroom and nothing to process!) Granted, the suburban schools have college attendence rates above 90% but the college graduation rates are way lower. Many students just don't see the need for the college experience after they get into it.

But the scarey part is when those students show up > Just curious - Do most high schools in the U.S. still have metalwork shops

Two words,

Coffee and community college.

No, I'm on the north end, school is at 51ave & UnionHills. MCC was the last place I knew of offering maching, bummer. Welding moved to 5x street and Bell road, but doesn't have the level of machines we had over here.

Joel. phx

We have a very good metal shop program at Valley High School here in Albuquerque. I volunteer there. But a lot of high schools have eliminated all types of "shop". :-( ...lew...

Community colleges are where that vocational stuff is now being taught, when it IS taught, public high schools are mostly babysitters and social clubs any more. A lot depends on what area of the country you're talking about. Some places there are still decent jobs available for non-degreed workers and those local industries support shop programs in the schools. In other places, like my hometown, the local manufacturing industries got bought out, killed off, out-sourced and/or moved south. Burger-flipper or college grad, that's about the sum of the career choices and the public schools are doing a lousy job of college prep. Can't just blame the schools either, voters and parents have to shoulder some of the blame, too.

Curmudgeon mode off

Stan

Sort of an interesting story at the high school I went to (only graduated last year). We used to have a metal shop, but that was abandoned more than 20 years ago, and all the equipment sold off (I assume--all thats left are the holes in the floor where they were bolted down). Due to a robotics program we now have though we are in the process of acquiring equipment. We have a couple of lathes (one is the teacher's own personal machine that he has brought in), and one that we got for free from a local NASA facility. We also (a couple of months ago) got an old bridgeport J-head mill in decent condition with

2-axis DRO for around $100 from a "small" local college. So we're getting back into metal shop--there's no formal class but there are a few students who are knowledgeable and they are teaching others, and the teacher is doing what he can to teach after school. The end result is that those who are interested are learning.

Justin

Al,

This your point is one that really irked me. The attitude was that "shop" was for the dummies that would flunk out of "real" classes. Hence, the best of the career programs and most single period classes in high school (carpentry, welding, etc) were set up off campus and used as a detention center for the ruffians.

Now, they have removed ALL the shops and are of a mind that all students need to get through life is access to a computer lab (my daughter's school has a computer sitting under the old forge hood).

I guess what this should be telling us is that our kids need to learn to fix things. Most people in the US will not even know which way to turn a screw in the future. Hopefully someone will recognize that ability to repair properly IS a SKILL and deserving of more than scorn and low pay as "dirty work".

Koz

Koz

I know of a number of Guidance councilors that believe that "shop" classes are for the kids that are not on the "College Prep" road or unable to read, or behave in class. I think the "ruffians" shouldn't be anywhere around moving machinery. As for the "low pay, dirty work" that is where they usually end up. It takes knowledge to work in the trades in any spot other then the s**t work. I also support any one of the "ruffians" that has quit school that wants to go back, shows that they are ready to learn.

If this ticks off some of the "ruffians", hey, I'm equal opportunity. I'll step on anybodys toes.

James

Koz wrote:

The Kirkwood MO high school has a metal and carpentry shop, I was pleasantly surprised to learn on a visit last year. To say it is underutilized would be a big understatement, however. They have a couple classes a week, I think. But, that is still better than none at all.

Jon

Too dangerous? Haven't you heard the Bill Cosby routine about "who put the bullet in the furnace"? That's just the beginning, of course!

Jon

Damned straight. Although I used the generic term "ruffians", 9 out of

10 of those kids are just on the wrong track and a good crack in the nuts by life often turns them around. I've always wondered why there is (mostly) no way back into school after making the mistake of screwing up there. Most schools aren't really interested in the goal of teaching whomever needs/wants to learn. They seem so caught up on management bureaucracy that they forget the results are the goal rather than focusing on being zookeepers. Students are their CUSTOMERS.

I always said that I'd teach my daughter to weld by the time she was

10...I'm a couple of years behind so I guess I shouldn't be complaining about the school programs :)

Koz

Public schooling: a socialist experiment lingering from when socialism was fashionable in the early 20th century. That's all you need to know. The perversities you so correctly observe derive from that. "Underpaid" to union teachers means they get a professional salary for working 3/4 of the day for 3/4 of the year = 1/2 time. But they kind of deserve it for putting up with working for the government.

"A.Gent" <

No. I work in an science institute allied with UWA as an instrument technician. I dont think I could handle teaching !

Dean.

This is demonstrably wrong. Compulsory public schooling was a direct result of the labor movement in the late 1800s. Basically the idea was to take children out of the labor pool so that the jobs they worked at could be taken by adults.

The children were doing adult jobs, under unbelieveable conditions, and being paid a small fraction of what an adult would make.

Anyone who thinks that removing children from mill jobs in massachusetts, for example, was an example of 'evil socialism' should think long and hard about *their* children working those jobs.

If that's 'socialism' then by all means bring it on.

Jim

My guess is that most of 'our' kids already have a pretty good teaching, by example.

How true. In some sense I'm *glad* the skills are not being taught - because I know it will mean more money for me down the road in a while.

I think even more important than being taught to *fix* things is giving kids the chance to take stuff _apart_. My personal view is that schools should take all the kids and give each team of three or so kids an old alarm clock, and tell them to take it apart and try to put it back together again.

I suspect this would have to be updated as they don't make westclock alarm clocks anymore, probably. Maybe give them all a defunct VCR?

Jim

AGREED. The best engineers at work(electrical and mechanical) are the ones who were techs first and have worked their way up to the design area. They may not have a lot of theory, but they know what works. Those of us with degrees(myself included) don't always think of the things that these guys do. Part of why I always try to run my ideas by the guys in the shop, but I still miss things that seem simple once they are pointed out by those who have been there, done that. Part of my "education" that I missed out on, and just have to accumulate as time goes on.

The worst engineers are the ones with the big degrees and think they are "better" than the guys in the shop. In my opinion, the guys in the shop, are the true heroes where I work.

JW