Metalwork in schools ?

But it's not very nice when it is a foreign state which has paid for some of those private services. ie the Government of British Columbia, throught BC Hydro donating $600M of that Californian electricity. But then California doesn't mind accepting charity?

:-) Mike in BC

Greetings and Salutations....

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:26:35 GMT, Gunner wrote:

And that is the "problem". The "ideals" of socialism are not that bad, in that its roots are in the concept of "everybody works as hard as they can...everyone gets what they need". The idea of course, being to "level out" the distribution of wealth in the society, so pretty much everyone is on an even economic plain. While the down sides are that no one gets obscenely rich, and that sometimes we CAN'T have everything we want, the up sides are that no one lives in abject poverty, and, no one is so economically challenged that they have to make the decision about whether to pay the rent or buy food for their kids. However, that well gets poisoned quickly by the failings of humanity (we Lutherans would call it "Original Sin" (*smile*)). The BIG problem is that we humans are greedy devils, and, our basic instinct is to acquire as much as we can, even to the detriment of our neighbors. American is a perfect example of this in a number of ways. Firstly, there is that classic catch phrase "The guy with the most toys when he dies, WINS". Nonsense of course, but we all know it and most of us follow it to some extent. Then, there is the fact that Americans are some of the fattest people in the world. There is no one forcing us to stuff our faces...it is our own greed. Another facet of the problem is that a Socialistic society turns over the distribution of wealth to an authoritarian, central government (anybody else think about the IRS and the Feds when I say this???). The problem here is that it would require god-like objectivity to "fairly" distribute the wealth - and humans are far from objective, even at their best. Patronage and corruption (in the form of "helping out our buddy") has been a hallmark of human society for as long as humans have been advanced enough to HAVE a society. Now...some of that is based in our basic, Tribal, instincts. We all have "rings" of tribes around us that we are a part of, and, when push comes to shove, we will help out the members of our tribe FIRST even if that costs a more distant person dearly. Finally, there is a strong streak of independence in all of us. We just do not like being told how to live our lives, and react negatively to anyone doing so. As a small example...why do you think that speeding is such a problem? I think it is less because the speed limits are set too low...but because it is a "safe" way we can assert our independence, and, pretend that we are not milling about in the corral, waiting to be milked. As for money...we work hard for the money we earn, so, we have a lot of ourselves invested in every dollar. That tends to make us a bit picky over how those dollars disappear from our pockets, and, what they are used for when they DO vanish. The point is that there are a broad range of social structures that folks can use as a framework for life. Some, small, groups of folks have created a very good society for themselves on a socialistic model. They have all worked towards a common sense of spirit, and, by gladly accepting the rules of a socialistic society, have had a comfortable and fulfilling life. Look at the Shakers, for example. However, folks that can do this are far too few to be able to create a truely positive, large society. In most cases, it deteriorates to a totalitarian government with a few "haves" oppressing the many "have nots" and keeping them in line with threats and force. As for metalwork in schools...I have always thought it was a great idea, and that everyone (male and female alike) should have had some sort of "shop" class in the normal rotation. The sad focus on "college prep" and the contempt for folks that get their hands dirty that has grown in America over the past 30 years or so is a terrible weakness that will end up rotting us from within, perhaps to the point that America, as a society, will cease to exist. Just some thoughts. Dave Mundt

You must have learned argumentation in the welfare, er, public schools.

Chuckle~

Harold

How did they "donate" it, Mike?

Ed Huntress

No doubt. If they spent the electric bill for sports fields at night for better books I would fall over. Flippen $3 million for an empty library ! I say put all though's multi-million dollar buildings into books and put them in one place. Order the cool one , might as well they don't have it there anyhow. Even that doesn't work for me , they still give me major crap to order out of state and it never shows up. It's a conspiracy I tell ya , just like the synchronized traffic lights and they bitch about the car emissions.

Sorry, what about the $50,000 metal art out front and not a good metalworking book in the place. :o) I'll shut up now.

I have a terrible fear that you are completely correct.

Jim

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 19:59:48 -0700, "M" calmly ranted:

I wonder if Harold has taken some of his parts to interviews with these guys who don't hire him.

(Show 'em your programming and output, Harold. Maybe that's the missing link in your rèsumè.)

- - - Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever. ---

Which also removes the self inrichment factor from anyone who might wish to develope a new product or system or development.

Few will do such on sheer altruism. The internet and computers would never have been developed as fast as they have been, if the entrepenurs were not able to make a profit. Same with most modern scientific advances and consumer products

Gunner

"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons"

Doesn't Thornton High have a metal shop any more?

-- wf.

AL wrote: