Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or about Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:41:54 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Only if they can find a Community Organizer to tell them which way to push the flowers.
- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or about Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:07:43 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
To quote "It's those intermediate years lots of us don't _want_ to go through." Do you _want_ to go through those years, or are you just willing to go through them if needs be? I don't want to go to work, I don't want to have to pack up the keepsakes, nor do I want to be on the road four, five weeks at a time. I don't want to be a responsible adult. So what? Who asked if I wanted to or not. But I got to do what I don't want to do, because it must be done, if only so I can do what I do want, which is build pipe organs, telescopes and learn to play Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor on the bagpipes. Oh, and I want to eat regular.
tschus pyotr
- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Let the Record show that Wes on or about Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:54:45 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
There will be a need for the "educated" or schooled, if only to recall what it was that made the culture good. Towards the end of Lucifer's Hammer, after the group has defeated the mutant cannibal hordes (thanks to a diabetic 'wizard' who knows how to whomp up mustard gas), they are asked to send aid to relieve the hordes besieging a nuclear power plant. In so many words, the protagonists says "What did we do last weekend? Gave a prize to a kid for catching and killing the most rats. Is that what we're willing to become, a culture of rat catcher? In a few years, when there are lightening storms people will huddle under their beds in fear of the gods. Go relieve the power plant, they have harnessed the lightening. Bring the lightening for my children!"
From other reading I've been doing of late comes this observation. Only the Nation can bring a tribal culture out of itself. A "dedication to the Family of Man" is mere tribalism in other words. That "Family of Man" quickly become "my family" - the people to whom I am related. One of the problems of tribal cultures is that the "us/them" dichotomy gets very strong, it is no "sin" to lie to non-tribal members, or kill them or take their stuff. [Yeah, inner city (or other locations) gangs are "tribal."] Thus the tribe needs warriors to defend Us against Them, to engage in preemptive retaliatory strikes. It isn't until you get beyond "just the tribe" that you can get the "leisure" to resolve things by universally accepted judges - aka the Rule of Law. It is a messy subject, and I'm only now getting into it. Come back in a few years when I've the material a little clearer in my own understanding.
There are communities, but they are not large enough, or strong enough to handle the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Some of the "communities" have not been able to withstand the last 40 years, if things get difficult they'll continue to conform. But I digress.
Or at least, one which doesn't see the individual as worthy of consideration. A benevolent tyrant might be willing to provide medical care for followers, if only to secure their usefulness for himself.
tschus pyotr
- pyotr filipivich Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow. "Its a simple procedure involving Lasers."
"The all want to go to Heaven, but let an illness come which might take them there, and they call for the deacons to pray for them." It's an old complaint.
- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
I've gained a bit of respect for proclaimed agnostics, at least they are honest about it.
Wes
-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Strabo reported Elvis on Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:19:59
-0400 >> Let the Record show that Bushcraftgregg on or
"Naturally" - every time we get a "solar storm" there is EMP. Most of the time, it is negligible, but there have been larger ones. And what is called a Carrington event is a relative rarity, occurring about once in 500 years. I'm trying to recall the relative scale, but if the solar storm which took out the Quebec grid was a -300, the Carrington event is estimated to have been -1701. let me check ... Okay, give up, Google (and Mozilla's history file) to the rescue!
A space storm's impact is measured in nano-Teslas (nT), [Solar and Heliospheric Observatory deputy project scientist Paal] Brekke explained. The lower the figure, the more powerful the storm. A moderate storm can be around -100 nT; extreme and damaging storms have been logged at around -300 nT.
The 1989 coronal mass ejection that knocked out power to all of Quebec, Canada measured -589 nT, Brekke said. The 1859 perfect storm was estimated to have been -1,760 nT. Brekke used three exclamation points in his e-mail delivering that number.
"In 1859, the technology was quite low in comparison to today's technology," Tsurutani said. "However the technology that we rely on today is much more vulnerable." ====
Okay, I was low for the Quebec storm but "close enough" for the
1859 event.
Yep.
Therein lies the problem. "High Tech"{1} Cultures are that way because of the interconnectability. That interconnectability in turns, is a weak spot for that culture. Be it telegraphs, telephones or sat phones; muscle power, steam power or electric power. Another Carrington Event is unlikely - not until the mid 24th Century. Unlikely, but not impossible, and there are lessor events which could be just as damaging. Oh, urks "Inconstant Moon" short story of a guy who notices the Moon is suddenly very bright. Calls his girlfriend, amateur astronomy. Turns out, the sun hasn't gone nova, just a massive solar flare to make the Coronal Mass Ejection of 1859 look small. Eurasia is odds on for being completely fried, sterilized and "gone". So a Carrington Event isn't so bad - "It could be worse!"
tschus pyotr
{1} High tech is a relative measure. Remember when "personal computer" meant a PC with a Intel 8088 processor and 128k of RAM? What was high tech, is now "low tech" - unless you have no computer at all. And so forth.
- pyotr filipivich. Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel, you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Dan reported Elvis on Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:18:33
-0700 >> Let the Record show that Bushcraftgregg on or
"Assume a shrubbery ..." it might be possible to keep diesels running if the electronics are fried (I don't know, but I suspect they have become "electronic fuel injection" systems, rather than the old mechanical systems. But the problem becomes communicating. No cell phones means no calling in for the next run, where you are, where you're going, etc, without having to stop and find a pay phone. Assuming you can find a payphone.
- pyotr filipivich. Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel, you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Bushcraftgregg reported Elvis on Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:44:36
-0700 (PDT) >> Let the Record show that Bushcraftgregg on or
Good. Last winter I variously lost power, lost the phone (no Internet). But did not begin to get worried until the water stopped. This is a disaster - no water means No Coffee! "Warning! Civilization to end in 3, 2, 1 ...."
But those not on their own well, or dependent on public power to use that will, might consider having other options.
tschus pyotr
- pyotr filipivich. Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel, you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
Indeed. One must crush the grapes to make wine, jack up the vehicle to change the flat tire while on the way to the date with the nympo, etc etc.
Im willing to go through them. Id rather not..but when one considers the only remaining option..death...that will come soon enough. Id rather push it as far in the future as possible despite some bad roads in the journey.
Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.
I tried to call work one day and didn't get a dial tone. End of mod cord, the wall fried but teh cheap phone still worked. I spliced it into the
Cool, I wish all network news providers would drop posts to Cliffs loon groups.
Wes
Didn't somplace have a couple of "500 year" floods in consecutive years a while back? Seems like Iowa or Minnasota come to mind. That 500 is a statistical average that can happen any time.
Ray
Indeed. They and the truely devote, are the only honest ones.
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.
ROFLMAO...true indeed!
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.
Hmmmmm, nope. Any morbid curiosity I might have had was satisfied long ago and far away. No doubt it wouldn't be pleasant, but it would be challenging. All considered, though, I'd really rather just see if I can help conserve _this_ society.
You see, I'm a conservative, where conserve means evaluate, improve, preserve, save what's good, prune what isn't, and try to make what is good better.
Maybe that's really conservationist rather than conservative.
Ben schrieb:
I'm not sure about the military infrastructure, but the civilian is surely in danger. But ...
The effect of EMP is obvious and nobody would deny it. But to believe that terrorists could launch a sophisticated EMP attack is over the line. Please check how the load for Starfish Prime was delivered. It needs a nations effort. And we are talking about a nation that is willing to waste billions for a quite obscure weapon.
So, the effect of EMP is real, but the actual risk is incredibly small.
Karsten
I dont suppose you ever heard about a very small nation, with limited resources, called Japan, and a place called "Pearl Harbor"..right?
Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.
On further thought..that really wasnt a good example. So Ill try another one.
I dont suppose you heard about the World Trade Center, and 19 young guys who had nothing better to do that day....right?
How many millions of dollars worth of commercial aircraft did they destroy, how many people (and their assets) did they destroy..and how much money did the WTC cost before they destroyed it?
4 Billion? 5 Billion? 15 Billion?Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.
The EMP was an OOPs moment. But the Russians actually did an EMP test from what I remember.
The Ruskies did quite a number of EMP tests..known as the K tests
Also google "test 184" for further data.
Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do something damned nasty to all three of them.
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