ONE SECOND AFTER

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:07:43 -0700, "Calif Bill"


I've read "Earth Abides." I thought it was pretty good although it has some serious technical inaccuracies, such as gasoline that is good after 10 years in storage and a grid that stays functional after months of no control or maintenance.
Still, it's a good read.
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on or

Gasoline in 1947 probably would work after 10 years. Not real well, but would probably work. The Discovery channel After Man show, said that the power from Hoover dam would keep flowing for years untill the quagga mussels blocked the pipes and there were no quaggas in 1947. And would have been more mechanical switchs which also would work longer than some of the modern stuff.
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I always loved those kind of books, sorta like a cowboys and indians western set in near time. Added it to my amazon order.
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Dan
-0700 in misc.survivalism:

    "Assume a shrubbery ..." it might be possible to keep diesels running if the electronics are fried (I don't know, but I suspect they have become "electronic fuel injection" systems, rather than the old mechanical systems.     But the problem becomes communicating. No cell phones means no calling in for the next run, where you are, where you're going, etc, without having to stop and find a pay phone. Assuming you can find a payphone. - pyotr filipivich. Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel, you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
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15:17:30 -0700, pyotr filipivich, snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com wrote:

Our 2005 Liberty CRD was recalled due to excessive torque doing in the torque converters. The recall in our case was done in two visits. The first was a patch to the computer code to reduce the amount of torque the engine produces. Second visit they replaced the torque converter with a beefier one.
I *wish* that once step two was completed, they'd have reversed step one.
Oh well, it gets 30mpg on the highway, 12 mpg better than the 3.7L gas option. Dunno if that was because the engine finally got broken in, or because of the changes to the computer.
At any rate... yeah, without the computer, this diesel won't run.
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Steve Ackman wrote:

You know, i sure wanted a CRD Liberty when they came out. Then about the time I was ready to kick tires they started having failures, and then they stopped making them. Had I known they would get 30 mpg I might have bought one anyway. What does it get around town?
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17:19:42 -0500, RBnDFW, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

We had the torque recall, and we had the turbo replaced (leaky seal) under warranty. The only thing we've paid for was a rear U-Joint. The 2.8L was made by Motori. Yeah, '05 or '06 was the last year for those, but you can get a German designed (and built?) 3.0L in the Grand Cherokees.

Just went out and looked at the mileage book. Our best tank was 30.8 mpg during the cross-country trip.

We don't really do any strictly town driving. These days my wife drives it 1/2 mile to work and back, and ~28 miles of mostly highway to groceries. Our last three tanks with that driving mix got us 25, 26, and 23 (+/- 0.1)
For a 4000+ lb. vehicle rated to haul 1150 lbs, and tow 5400 lbs, I can't complain about the fuel efficiency at all.
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Steve Ackman wrote:

Dammit, I may have to give those another look. I do recall being AMAZED that those cute little things weighed 2 tons.
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wrote:

=======You may find the following of interest:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090825/BUSINESS01/90825077/1206/business0103/Chrysler-sues-Daimler-for-withholding-engines--parts
be sure to read the reader comments/ Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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If an event like that in the book should happen I think the scenario depicted in the CD audio/Book are probably very realistic. I remember as a kid in the 50s/60/s when nuclear war was a real possibility Civil Defense fallout shelters stocked with food and water for a week or two (depending on population numbers) were scattered throughout most cities and towns. That is no longer the case. With a total collapse of the ELECTRIC GRID, think of the Northeast Blackout of 2005(?) but not repairable for several months and what kind of chaos would there be?
I take several prescription medications. I keep a three month supply on hand but IF I ran out of those medications I would not survive for more than a few weeks. One thing pointed out in OSA (One Second After) is how vulnerable the elderly and those with certain medical conditions are. Insulin dependent diabetics, those with pacemakers, dialysis patients and others would die in a few days without the support structure provided by the Electric Grid. Starvation becomes a concern after just a few weeks. If the event takes place during the heat of the summer any food item that requires refrigeration must be consumed immediately.
I grew up on a farm. Back then FACTORY farms were NOT the norm. The farms were smaller and just about every farmer raised chickens, milked a few cows, had a few hogs and several head of beef cattle. Now most of the farms are huge and instead of raising a variety of crops and animals they concentrate on one type of operation. Even farmers depend on the local grocery stores for food. Large dairy farms may milk hundreds or thousands of cows daily. However they do not raise their own hay and grain to feed those cattle. They truck in feedstock from as far as hundreds of miles away. The calves of beef breeding herds are taken off of grass and sent to feedlots several hundred miles away to be fattened up to slaughter weight. The same goes for chickens and hogs. Modern agriculture is dependent on MODERN transportation.
We have a population of over 300 Million here in the United States. A nation wide disaster like that depicted in OSA would reduce the population to about half that within ONE year. Don't think it could happen? Think back several years to Hurricane Katrina. Multiply that disaster by a factor of about 1,000 and you have the scenario laid out in OSA.
This book has scared the living shit out of me. Right now all of our attention is focused on Obama's HEALTH CARE. Maybe we need to pay more attention to our preparedness for a disaster like that in OSA. North Korea and Iran and others do have or will soon have the capability to mount an attack like that portrayed in OSA. I hope it never happens and it probably will not, but just in case! We all need to do some planning.
I hope some Hollywood visionary makes a movie on OSA that follows the story line exactly. The movie THE CHINA SYNDROME stopped the expansion of the Nuclear power industry in its tracks. Maybe a movie based on ONE SECOND AFTER would wake up enough people in the country to events that COULD happen and we might make the decisions necessary for survival.
DL
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TwoGuns wrote:

Someone has already made a decent mini-series that starts out with an EMP attack. The focus, however, was nuclear winter.
I can't imagine any first strike by the US or anyone being land based but such a plan would certainly include numerous large weapons specifically designed to generate huge EM pulses. I say I can't imagine a land based first strike because you wouldn't want to give an opponent a chance to respond and land based missiles have to travel a long way and they are detectable.
An American SSBN or six, on the other hand, could sneak right up to within a couple of minutes range of just about anyone in the world and in two minutes an enemy couldn't even pull their finger out. Depending on their load out and configuration, six boomers could deliver 384 independently targeted nukes all at once, with precision, and without any real warning.
That's what you'd do if it came down to it.
--
John R. Carroll



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MAD isn't all that mad is it?
Wes
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Wes wrote:

No Wes, it isn't. It's something to think about though. One of the questions people who try and position themselves to survive a nuclear exchane never seem to ask is the obvious one. Why would you want to?
--
John R. Carroll



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Just to see what'd be on the other side of that event. That would ^H^H^H^H^H might could cure my inordinate curiosity though. <G>
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On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:02:24 -0400, the infamous John Husvar

---------------------- Did Hell just freeze over? JRC and I actually agree on something.

You misspelled "morbid curiosity", John. <shudder>
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So far Mr. Obama has used his personally exciting presidency for initiatives
that are spending public money on a scale not seen since ancient Egypt.
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or about Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:41:54 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Only if they can find a Community Organizer to tell them which way to push the flowers.

- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:33:33 -0700, pyotr filipivich

ROFLMAO...true indeed!
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or about Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:07:43 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    To quote "It's those intermediate years lots of us don't _want_ to go through." Do you _want_ to go through those years, or are you just willing to go through them if needs be?     I don't want to go to work, I don't want to have to pack up the keepsakes, nor do I want to be on the road four, five weeks at a time. I don't want to be a responsible adult. So what? Who asked if I wanted to or not. But I got to do what I don't want to do, because it must be done, if only so I can do what I do want, which is build pipe organs, telescopes and learn to play Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor on the bagpipes. Oh, and I want to eat regular.
tschus pyotr

- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:41:05 -0700, pyotr filipivich

Indeed. One must crush the grapes to make wine, jack up the vehicle to change the flat tire while on the way to the date with the nympo, etc etc.
Im willing to go through them. Id rather not..but when one considers the only remaining option..death...that will come soon enough. Id rather push it as far in the future as possible despite some bad roads in the journey.
Gunner
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Aug 2009 17:54:45 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    There will be a need for the "educated" or schooled, if only to recall what it was that made the culture good. Towards the end of Lucifer's Hammer, after the group has defeated the mutant cannibal hordes (thanks to a diabetic 'wizard' who knows how to whomp up mustard gas), they are asked to send aid to relieve the hordes besieging a nuclear power plant. In so many words, the protagonists says "What did we do last weekend? Gave a prize to a kid for catching and killing the most rats. Is that what we're willing to become, a culture of rat catcher? In a few years, when there are lightening storms people will huddle under their beds in fear of the gods. Go relieve the power plant, they have harnessed the lightening. Bring the lightening for my children!"
    From other reading I've been doing of late comes this observation. Only the Nation can bring a tribal culture out of itself. A "dedication to the Family of Man" is mere tribalism in other words. That "Family of Man" quickly become "my family" - the people to whom I am related. One of the problems of tribal cultures is that the "us/them" dichotomy gets very strong, it is no "sin" to lie to non-tribal members, or kill them or take their stuff. [Yeah, inner city (or other locations) gangs are "tribal."] Thus the tribe needs warriors to defend Us against Them, to engage in preemptive retaliatory strikes. It isn't until you get beyond "just the tribe" that you can get the "leisure" to resolve things by universally accepted judges - aka the Rule of Law. It is a messy subject, and I'm only now getting into it. Come back in a few years when I've the material a little clearer in my own understanding.

    There are communities, but they are not large enough, or strong enough to handle the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Some of the "communities" have not been able to withstand the last 40 years, if things get difficult they'll continue to conform. But I digress.

    Or at least, one which doesn't see the individual as worthy of consideration. A benevolent tyrant might be willing to provide medical care for followers, if only to secure their usefulness for himself.
tschus pyotr
- pyotr filipivich Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow. "Its a simple procedure involving Lasers."
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