I've read "Earth Abides." I thought it was pretty good although it
has some serious technical inaccuracies, such as gasoline that is good
after 10 years in storage and a grid that stays functional after
months of no control or maintenance.
Still, it's a good read.
Gasoline in 1947 probably would work after 10 years. Not real well, but
would probably work. The Discovery channel After Man show, said that the
power from Hoover dam would keep flowing for years untill the quagga mussels
blocked the pipes and there were no quaggas in 1947. And would have been
more mechanical switchs which also would work longer than some of the modern
I always loved those kind of books, sorta like a cowboys and indians western set
time. Added it to my amazon order.
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Dan
-0700 in misc.survivalism:
"Assume a shrubbery ..." it might be possible to keep diesels
running if the electronics are fried (I don't know, but I suspect they
have become "electronic fuel injection" systems, rather than the old
But the problem becomes communicating. No cell phones means no
calling in for the next run, where you are, where you're going, etc,
without having to stop and find a pay phone. Assuming you can find a
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
Our 2005 Liberty CRD was recalled due to excessive
torque doing in the torque converters. The recall
in our case was done in two visits. The first was a
patch to the computer code to reduce the amount of
torque the engine produces. Second visit they replaced
the torque converter with a beefier one.
I *wish* that once step two was completed, they'd
have reversed step one.
Oh well, it gets 30mpg on the highway, 12 mpg better
than the 3.7L gas option. Dunno if that was because
the engine finally got broken in, or because of the
changes to the computer.
At any rate... yeah, without the computer, this
diesel won't run.
You know, i sure wanted a CRD Liberty when they came out. Then about the
time I was ready to kick tires they started having failures, and then
they stopped making them.
Had I known they would get 30 mpg I might have bought one anyway.
What does it get around town?
We had the torque recall, and we had the turbo
replaced (leaky seal) under warranty. The only thing
we've paid for was a rear U-Joint.
The 2.8L was made by Motori. Yeah, '05 or '06
was the last year for those, but you can get a German
designed (and built?) 3.0L in the Grand Cherokees.
Just went out and looked at the mileage book. Our
best tank was 30.8 mpg during the cross-country trip.
We don't really do any strictly town driving.
These days my wife drives it 1/2 mile to work and
back, and ~28 miles of mostly highway to groceries.
Our last three tanks with that driving mix got us
25, 26, and 23 (+/- 0.1)
For a 4000+ lb. vehicle rated to haul 1150 lbs, and
tow 5400 lbs, I can't complain about the fuel efficiency
=======You may find the following of interest:
be sure to read the reader comments/
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
If an event like that in the book should happen I think the scenario
depicted in the CD audio/Book are probably very realistic. I remember
as a kid in the 50s/60/s when nuclear war was a real possibility Civil
Defense fallout shelters stocked with food and water for a week or two
(depending on population numbers) were scattered throughout most
cities and towns. That is no longer the case. With a total collapse of
the ELECTRIC GRID, think of the Northeast Blackout of 2005(?) but not
repairable for several months and what kind of chaos would there be?
I take several prescription medications. I keep a three month supply
on hand but IF I ran out of those medications I would not survive for
more than a few weeks. One thing pointed out in OSA (One Second After)
is how vulnerable the elderly and those with certain medical
conditions are. Insulin dependent diabetics, those with pacemakers,
dialysis patients and others would die in a few days without the
support structure provided by the Electric Grid. Starvation becomes a
concern after just a few weeks. If the event takes place during the
heat of the summer any food item that requires refrigeration must be
I grew up on a farm. Back then FACTORY farms were NOT the norm. The
farms were smaller and just about every farmer raised chickens, milked
a few cows, had a few hogs and several head of beef cattle. Now most
of the farms are huge and instead of raising a variety of crops and
animals they concentrate on one type of operation. Even farmers depend
on the local grocery stores for food. Large dairy farms may milk
hundreds or thousands of cows daily. However they do not raise their
own hay and grain to feed those cattle. They truck in feedstock from
as far as hundreds of miles away. The calves of beef breeding herds
are taken off of grass and sent to feedlots several hundred miles away
to be fattened up to slaughter weight. The same goes for chickens and
hogs. Modern agriculture is dependent on MODERN transportation.
We have a population of over 300 Million here in the United States. A
nation wide disaster like that depicted in OSA would reduce the
population to about half that within ONE year. Don't think it could
happen? Think back several years to Hurricane Katrina. Multiply that
disaster by a factor of about 1,000 and you have the scenario laid out
This book has scared the living shit out of me. Right now all of our
attention is focused on Obama's HEALTH CARE. Maybe we need to pay more
attention to our preparedness for a disaster like that in OSA. North
Korea and Iran and others do have or will soon have the capability to
mount an attack like that portrayed in OSA. I hope it never happens
and it probably will not, but just in case! We all need to do some
I hope some Hollywood visionary makes a movie on OSA that follows the
story line exactly. The movie THE CHINA SYNDROME stopped the expansion
of the Nuclear power industry in its tracks. Maybe a movie based on
ONE SECOND AFTER would wake up enough people in the country to events
that COULD happen and we might make the decisions necessary for
Someone has already made a decent mini-series that starts out with an EMP
The focus, however, was nuclear winter.
I can't imagine any first strike by the US or anyone being land based but
such a plan would certainly include numerous large weapons specifically
designed to generate huge EM pulses. I say I can't imagine a land based
first strike because you wouldn't want to give an opponent a chance to
respond and land based missiles have to travel a long way and they are
An American SSBN or six, on the other hand, could sneak right up to within a
couple of minutes range of just about anyone in the world and in two minutes
an enemy couldn't even pull their finger out. Depending on their load out
and configuration, six boomers could deliver 384 independently targeted
nukes all at once, with precision, and without any real warning.
That's what you'd do if it came down to it.
No Wes, it isn't.
It's something to think about though.
One of the questions people who try and position themselves to survive a
nuclear exchane never seem to ask is the obvious one.
Why would you want to?
or about Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:07:43 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
To quote "It's those intermediate years lots of us don't _want_ to
go through." Do you _want_ to go through those years, or are you just
willing to go through them if needs be?
I don't want to go to work, I don't want to have to pack up the
keepsakes, nor do I want to be on the road four, five weeks at a time.
I don't want to be a responsible adult. So what? Who asked if I
wanted to or not. But I got to do what I don't want to do, because it
must be done, if only so I can do what I do want, which is build pipe
organs, telescopes and learn to play Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D
Minor on the bagpipes. Oh, and I want to eat regular.
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:41:05 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Indeed. One must crush the grapes to make wine, jack up the vehicle to
change the flat tire while on the way to the date with the nympo, etc
Im willing to go through them. Id rather not..but when one considers the
only remaining option..death...that will come soon enough. Id rather
push it as far in the future as possible despite some bad roads in the
Aug 2009 17:54:45 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
There will be a need for the "educated" or schooled, if only to
recall what it was that made the culture good. Towards the end of
Lucifer's Hammer, after the group has defeated the mutant cannibal
hordes (thanks to a diabetic 'wizard' who knows how to whomp up
mustard gas), they are asked to send aid to relieve the hordes
besieging a nuclear power plant. In so many words, the protagonists
says "What did we do last weekend? Gave a prize to a kid for catching
and killing the most rats. Is that what we're willing to become, a
culture of rat catcher? In a few years, when there are lightening
storms people will huddle under their beds in fear of the gods. Go
relieve the power plant, they have harnessed the lightening. Bring
the lightening for my children!"
From other reading I've been doing of late comes this observation.
Only the Nation can bring a tribal culture out of itself. A
"dedication to the Family of Man" is mere tribalism in other words.
That "Family of Man" quickly become "my family" - the people to whom I
am related. One of the problems of tribal cultures is that the
"us/them" dichotomy gets very strong, it is no "sin" to lie to
non-tribal members, or kill them or take their stuff. [Yeah, inner
city (or other locations) gangs are "tribal."] Thus the tribe needs
warriors to defend Us against Them, to engage in preemptive
retaliatory strikes. It isn't until you get beyond "just the tribe"
that you can get the "leisure" to resolve things by universally
accepted judges - aka the Rule of Law. It is a messy subject, and
I'm only now getting into it. Come back in a few years when I've the
material a little clearer in my own understanding.
There are communities, but they are not large enough, or strong
enough to handle the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Some of
the "communities" have not been able to withstand the last 40 years,
if things get difficult they'll continue to conform. But I digress.
Or at least, one which doesn't see the individual as worthy of
consideration. A benevolent tyrant might be willing to provide
medical care for followers, if only to secure their usefulness for
Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow.
"Its a simple procedure involving Lasers."
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