OT---Blending waste and heating oil for use in a boiler

What is the expected life of a burner nozzle? I would expect that a nozzle ought to last for a number of years, but don't really know.

My understanding is that one can filter used lubricating oil from one container to another container lower than the first using a rope as a wick so the oil first goes up by capillary action and then down to the second container. And that filtering this way will remove the carbon. I have not tried this. Has anyone done it? And does it work.

I do know for a fact that regardless of the neighbors, you will not get a EPA fine for burning waste oil generated on site. One of the local garages has a waste oil furnace and heats their shop using waste oil from their service business. Burning waste oil generated on site is approved by the EPA.

The garage has a heated tank for the waste oil. If you try using a heated tank, be sure to turn the heat off during the summer. The garage did not do this a couple of years ago, and it was a problem.

Dan

Yes, we see that quite clearly in you standing your position without considering that others, too, have one. Some of your comments show you to be the moron many of us think you are.

What is it, you don't understand things you read? At what point did I ask for *advice*?

Unless I'm mistaken, I asked for *comments*-------and I have yet to read anywhere that I'm bound to follow them. I wanted opinions----and I got several of them. Most folks are kind enough to share what they know----you want to force feed me what you *know* you know, but I think you need to go back to the books and learn more about oil burners, and especially something about talking with people. You, sir, are not the "all knowing" individual you think you are. I encountered a guy like you when I was trying to learn the art of precious metal refining. He laughed in my face and told me "I'd never do it". Two years later I had captured the bulk of his refining customers------and went on to retire, selling what had become a very fine business. Yeah, I want to listen to people like you that stifle thinking-------after all, they know *everything*.

Must really suck to be you-----having never achieved anything in your life-----and tossing a wet blanket on everyone you encounter. Most of us know your type----make the other guy look as stupid as you look, so you look good by comparison. Find someone else to badger----you've taken all the ride you're going to get off my back..

You obviously do NOT know me----not at all. I'm very capable of admitting my mistakes------and do my share of *admitting*. I simply don't allow people that see everything negatively to get in the way of my decision making. You, sir, are a boor, and I have nothing more to say to you. Hmphh! $1.50 nozzles! You obviously have never purchased one-----

Now run along and play in the quicksand.

Harold

snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote in article ...

Even with clean, filtered number 2 fuel oil, the bronze filter built into the nozzle eventually clogs.....

You're talking about a commercial operation.

"Generated on site" refers to a commercial shop of some sort.

Some states have specifically banned the installation and use of waste oil burners in residential neighborhoods.

Which? and when?

jk

They wanted them to smoke to give water vapor something to form drops of water on. The water fell on the plants and created a thin layer of ice, which acted as insulation. The smudge pots were replaced by huge wells and sprayers to put a fine mist of water in the are to do the same thing. Before the smudge pots, the orange groves burned huge piles of tires to create the smoke to save their crops. I lived on what had been an orange grove for ten years. One pile we had to remove was over 7000 tires that had been stacked up for over 20 years. We filled a steady stream of construction dumpsters with them.

Some nurseries used clean burning smudge pots to keep plants warmer, under 50% or 70% shade cloth. The one I knew of used fresh kerosene to keep the soot to a minimum. Any soot had to be washed off before the plants could be sold.

Generated on site means that you are not buying waste oil to burn. It does not mean commercial operation. Maybe some states have banned burning waste oil in residential neighborhoods, but I really doubt it. It would be a law that is almost impossible to enforce as there is no more smoke and soot generated by burning waste oil than is generated by your oil furnace.

Dan

Generally speaking the heating oil on the East Coast runs about 2000 ppm,and that is slated to come down to 500ppm. Sulphur content of waste oil/lubricating oil is double or in excess of

Compounds of oxygen, nitrogen, calcium, chlorine, sodium, potassium and vanadium may also play a role sometimes in very complex relationships. This is particularly true of high-temperature corrosion, i.e., steam generator tubes operating at temperatures of 400ºC to 650ºC, in the presence of molten ash and oxides. Under these conditions even highly alloyed steels may suffer catastrophic corrosionCompounds of oxygen, nitrogen, calcium, chlorine, sodium, potassium and vanadium may also play a role sometimes in very complex relationships. This is particularly true of high-temperature corrosion, i.e., steam generator tubes operating at temperatures of 400ºC to

Waste oil contains large concentrations of heavy metals, that will react in your oil tank to form sludge (even after you filtered it). That is why additive packages for heating oil contain metal deactivatiors.

You propose to add chemically unstable oil of higher viscosity and flash point, laden with heavy metals and carbon, into your oil tank with good oil. Keep in mind even good quality heating oil has a "shelf life". It has to sit in your tank for months before it is burned, and is subject to condensation/water accumulation, baterial growth, and catalytic reaction with metals in contact with the fuel, or suspended in the fuel. All of these items cause sludge formation in your tank. Sludge in the tank not only messes up the tank, but coats the interior of the oil lines leading to the burner like hardening of the arteries. The pump vacuum will go higher and higher until the pump fails. I get the feeling this is a buried tank, so digging up the oil lines is another future consideration.

You also don't mention how you blend the waste oil and #2. If you just dump waste oil in the tank, it will stratify at the bottom. Hypothetically speaking, to properly blend the waste oil it should probably be at least 10 degF above its cloud point, or lets say around 60 degF, and blended by pumping with several tank turnovers at sufficient volume, or even better with a mixing eductor.

Balance of air is not the issue, using equipment designed to burn #2 with waste oil is. You think by opening the air band on the burner you get a hotter flame (the fire makes a nice roar right?) Well once you go past 12% CO2 (but you can't tell cause no instruments), you have a fire with "excess air." That means you are introducing too much air into the chamber, actually cooling the chamber. So your boiler that may be rated at 83% efficiency is now down at 70% with a excess air condition. Your savings in oil cost has been negated since your have to use more oil.

For one, I am filtering

Sludge in the waste oil prior to placing it in your tank is only one issue, (and how well are you filtering ? 10 microns?) The formation of sludge due to chemical reaction and bacterial action while this stuff sits in your tank in another issue.

The nozzle needs to be changed every 2 years or so depending on the burner, older burners more frequently. Why? Because coking in the nozzle (which occurs after flame shutdown) will mess up the atomization (50 micron droplet size for proper combustion). If you have never replaced the nozzle your running an efficiency defecit already. Again, with no with instruments such as a Bacherach combustion tester it's guesswork.

The pump should be even happier than it was pumping straight

Pump won't be happy pulling high vacuum from the sludge buildup in the lines and pump strainer. Of course you have a vacuum and pressure gauge , and you adjusted the pump pressure :^)

If you want to add 10 gallons of waste oil into a 1000 gallon tank and call that a success, and if adding waste oil floats your boat go for it, it's not my oil tank that's getting trashed.

Tony

Chuckle!

Yep!

You know that, Dan, and I know that, but your work is cut out for you trying to convince the illustrious Mr. * of the fact.

Harold

Leon,

Been up to my hips in the swamp of late, so I'm running well behind, but I wanted to thank you for the links for the book. Haven't explored yet, but I fully intend to, and you made it dead easy! Very much appreciated.

Harold

snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote in article ...

The term does not just refer to the *purchase* of waste oil. It means that the waste oil has to be the direct result of operations occuring at the specific property.

What homeowner has the capacity to "generate" several hundred gallons of waste oil "on-site"?

If you serve as a repository for the neighborhood, the waste oil has not been generated "on-site." It was generated elsewhere, and transported to your site.

While some have specifically stated that waste oil furnaces cannot be used in residential areas, rules requiring waste oil to be generated "on-site" effectively serve the same purpose.

How many times can a DIY change his oil, and in how many cars?

It also has to do with storage and potential for spills......not just smoke.

All it would take is for a local inspector to see a new tank in place - or worse, a number of 55 gallon drums alongside a building.

OTOH, if you go down to city ahll and pulla permit for an oil storage tank, you're opening another can of worms.

How would you like a neighbor a few doors up from you to dump his waste oil behind the garage - directly over the aquifer that serves your artesian well?

Imagine if he spilled a 55 gallon drum of waste oil!

Historically, waste oil has not been handled, stored, or disposed of properly - especially by the DIY.

What DIY is going to set up a commercial storage tank for the little waste oil he generates each year?

What DIY is set up to take initial action should a spill occur?

The OP talks about blending his waste oil in a 1000 gallon tank, but how is he storing the waste oil prior to blending it?

Does he have a commercially installed waste oil storage tank for the hundred gallons he currently stores?

I've given up on convincing him that he's ruining his equipment. I really couldn't care less about what it eventually costs him.

But, he has the potential of polluting the area with waste oil............

.......which is one major reason why waste oil burning is banned - directly or indirectly - in residential neighborhoods.

Hi Harold,

I'm glad you found it useful, it only took me a minute. I may not be able to help with metal working stuff very often, but I do know how to find books. I have a soft spot for books, especially reference titles. Sadly, most of them I get now come from libraries as discards. Many libraries are now calling themselves "reading" and not "reference" :(

Hmphf! At the rate we're going in this country, it won't be long until we're a nation of dolts that can't do anything, and what little we do we won't be doing very well. No industrial arts taught in schools, no steel mills----few machine tool builders-------and now-----no books on those subjects in libraries?

As a young boy, I spent considerable time at the library, almost always looking at books with mechanical projects for boys. I guess that isn't fashionable today.

Sigh!

Harold

Hi Harold,

It really bothers me to see what gets "discarded" at the used book sales I go to. Sometimes I have taken a few minutes and tried looking up titles I just purchased to see if they have a copy yet. Many times they do not, or there is just one title left in the system (the "system" covers most of Lower West Michigan). If you wanted it you would have to put in a request and wait for it to be transferred to your local library location. Now how many people actually do this for a book they aren't sure whether it is what they're really looking for?

I really, really like nice old reference books on most any subject. Especially when I can get them dirt cheap :)

I agree with your point too. It already hit my old trade several years ago. There isn't a whole lot of electronics being repaired anymore. A two-way radio that used to cost $2000 can now be had for less than $100. If it quits working they throw it away and buy another one... The same thing goes for TV's, computers, calculators, phones...

Again which and when?

Well, NO "neighbor" can dump oil over the aquifer that serves an artesian well. Over the aquifer that serves a ground water well, yes, aretsian well, well its some "neighbor" that lives that far away.

As does any body with an oil furnace, waste or otherwise.

Again, .... when and where?

jk

Shrug!

What can I add to that? Things are "a changin'". We live in a disposable society---for good, or for bad. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of what's happening today. I think back to the 50's and wonder how good life might be with the "old" way of thinking. Can't stop progress-------the question is-------is it?

Some of my fondest memories of my young teenage years are of spending time in the only radio (& TV) repair shop in the little town where I grew up. The young man that worked there was very patient with me and helped me build a small amplifier. I was totally enthralled with electronics at that stage of the game, but came to understand that my real aptitude was in machining. About the time solid state started making inroads, I was so far out of the game that I realized I didn't really know anything, and it was hard for me to grasp what was going on. So much for my voyage in the electronics field!

Books: Yeah, I like them, too. I have nothing in the way of novels, however. The books I buy are typically technical in nature----something from which I can learn something that holds my interest, or perhaps provides instruction on "How to". Fact is, I learned precious metal refining from a book-----and lots of lab time, I might add.

Harold

Simple economics - by the time you track down all the parts (many of which are marked with a proprietary part number that you have to find a cross-reference to the ECG part number), get the device open, use special SMT techniques to change the part... You are well past the price of a new mass-produced item.

Even if you can fix it yourself essentially for free, you can't get the pieces. They discontinued them because the part was custom manufactured for the device, and since the device went out of production nobody buys the replacement parts in the retail stream. The manufacturer ordered a small quantity for warranty repairs, and they charge a fortune.

Talk to any large police department - LAPD can't get the electronic or mechanical parts for "Antique" Motorola Saber handheld radios that are only 6 to 10 years old - they have to buy new radios for the Patrol officers, and cannibalize old dead radios for parts for the divisions still using the hand-me-downs.

-->--

Sorry, Bruce. ECG is now part of NTE: "In January 2001 NTE acquired the assets of the ECG division of Philips North America." There are no more ECG cross reference books or fresh stock. NTE used the same numbering system.

You can download the NTE electronic cross reference here:

That is due to Motorola's corporate greed. They are so sure that you'll buy a new radio from them and not their competitor that they force you to scrap the radios. The LAPD should have kept their old HT-220s. ;-)

This attitude is costing them large contracts to foreign built equipment. Motorola used to support 20 year old radios, till they became so greedy. If they lose the Two way market, all they will have left is a couple models of cell phones, and a little cellular base station items. They started shooting off their toes in the '70s and they only have a couple left.

jk wrote in article ...

oil............

Most people with oil burners have their fuel needs serviced by professional. licensed distributors using approved equipment and methods of transfer - not amateurs tipping five-gallon cans into thousand-gallon tanks.

Several New England states - for example.

I was told I could not buy a waste oil burner for my Massachusetts home garage by the people who SOLD THEM!!!! Lanair.....

They told me they could NOT install one of their units at a residence.

I find it more-than-a-little paranoid that you should lash out at me in particular when I am only echoing many of the comments made by others questioning the intelligence of running waste oil through a system that was not designed for it.

Why are you so afraid of what I have to say in particular?

Have you already run into problems with the local authorities for handling so much waste oil?

What nerve have I touched?

Or, are you just pissed off that so many people think that your idea isn't quite as bright as you would like to believe - and I was the next post you came across?

Go ahead.....

Go back through the posts on this thread, and you'll find that others have "commented" just as negatively on your pet project as I have...........

..............yet, you feel compelled to take a swipe at me.

Is it because you know - deep down in your heart - that you are making a big mistake that will cost much more than it will save?

What, exactly IS your problem?