OT: Pizza deliveryman won't be charged

A pizza deliveryman who killed an armed man who was trying to rob him

>will not face criminal charges, the Marion County Prosecutor's office >announced today. > >"It's a clear case of self-defense," Deputy Prosecutor Barb Crawford >said. "He did what the law allows him to do to protect himself." > >Ronald B. Honeycutt, 38, Carmel, shot Jerome Brown-Dancler, 20, 9500 >block of East 39th Place, more than a dozen times on May 17. > >The evidence shows that Brown-Dancler pointed a 9mm handgun at >Honeycutt, who had had just finished making a delivery about 11 p.m. >in the 3600 block of Long Wharf Drive on the Far Eastside. > >Brown-Dancler's gun was loaded with 14 rounds, but had no bullet in >the chamber, Crawford said. Honeycutt produced his own 9mm and fired >until it was empty. > >After the shooting, Honeycutt told The Star he was just getting into >his van when Brown-Dancler appeared to go for a gun. > >Honeycutt kept shooting after the would-be robber hit the ground, >evidence shows. He took the man's gun, fearing it might be stolen if >it was left with the body. He got in his van, drove to the Pizza Hut >Restaurant where he worked and told his manager to call police, >Crawford said. > >"This was late at night. This was a high-crime area," Crawford said. >"He left because he wasn't sure whether or not Brown-Dancler had any >friends with him. As it turns out, he did indeed have friends with >him. They left when they heard shots fired." > >Police found both guns in Honeycutt's van. > >Honeycutt says he fired 15 shots, but Crawford said the medical >evidence cannot determine how many times Brown-Dancler was hit. The >evidence shows only that he was shot more than 10 but less than 15 >times, Crawford said. > >Honeycutt said he was fired from his job at Pizza Hut because he had >violated the firm's policy against carrying a gun. > > >----------------------------------------------------------- >Learn about rec.guns at
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That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner
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|| || ||>A pizza deliveryman who killed an armed man who was trying to rob him ||>will not face criminal charges, the Marion County Prosecutor's office ||>announced today. ||>

||>"It's a clear case of self-defense," Deputy Prosecutor Barb Crawford ||>said. "He did what the law allows him to do to protect himself." ||>

||>Ronald B. Honeycutt, 38, Carmel, shot Jerome Brown-Dancler, 20, 9500 ||>block of East 39th Place, more than a dozen times on May 17. ||>

||>The evidence shows that Brown-Dancler pointed a 9mm handgun at ||>Honeycutt, who had had just finished making a delivery about 11 p.m. ||>in the 3600 block of Long Wharf Drive on the Far Eastside. ||>

||>Brown-Dancler's gun was loaded with 14 rounds, but had no bullet in ||>the chamber, Crawford said. Honeycutt produced his own 9mm and fired ||>until it was empty. ||>

||>After the shooting, Honeycutt told The Star he was just getting into ||>his van when Brown-Dancler appeared to go for a gun. ||>

||>Honeycutt kept shooting after the would-be robber hit the ground, ||>evidence shows. He took the man's gun, fearing it might be stolen if ||>it was left with the body. He got in his van, drove to the Pizza Hut ||>Restaurant where he worked and told his manager to call police, ||>Crawford said. ||>

||>"This was late at night. This was a high-crime area," Crawford said. ||>"He left because he wasn't sure whether or not Brown-Dancler had any ||>friends with him. As it turns out, he did indeed have friends with ||>him. They left when they heard shots fired." ||>

||>Police found both guns in Honeycutt's van. ||>

||>Honeycutt says he fired 15 shots, but Crawford said the medical ||>evidence cannot determine how many times Brown-Dancler was hit. The ||>evidence shows only that he was shot more than 10 but less than 15 ||>times, Crawford said. ||>

||>Honeycutt said he was fired from his job at Pizza Hut because he had ||>violated the firm's policy against carrying a gun. ||>

||>

||>----------------------------------------------------------- ||>Learn about rec.guns at

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||>-----------------------------------------------------------|| ||That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's ||cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays ||there. || - George Orwell

Texas Parts Guy

Reply to
Rex B

Take your pick, there are 17 of them in the US!

Marion County, AL Marion County, AR Marion County, FL Marion County, GA Marion County, IA Marion County, IL Marion County, IN Marion County, KS Marion County, KY Marion County, MO Marion County, MS Marion County, OH Marion County, OR Marion County, SC Marion County, TN Marion County, TX Marion County, WV

Lane

Reply to
Lane

Geez!!! They're even worse than Shelbyvilles.

Paul K. DIckman

Reply to
Paul K. Dickman

Buffalo? Some states have two. Or maybe more. ;-)

Tim

-- "I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics,

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting and Games:

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Reply to
Tim Williams

If you are going to commit a robbery with a handgun. at /least/ have enough brains to know how the weapon works. Even if the robber was carrying the weapon without a round chambered, you chamber one and pop the safety off before you begin the robbery. Dumbth.

Then again, there's no aptitude test for being a criminal...

That was a smart move, if he'd left it, the weapon would NOT have been there in 5 minutes - but I hope the victim had enough foresight to use the often-shown-on-TV method of picking up the weapon with a pencil up the barrel, so the prints would be there for proof.

"Gun Control" is hitting what you aim for.

This is patently stupid - They only have that policy in place so that Pizza Hut can't get sued as an accessory to any shootings like this.

Unfortunately, in rough neighborhoods the bad guys know the drivers are not supposed to be armed, which makes them easy pickings. And worse, third-strikers might get the money and the pizza, the driver cooperates fully - and they kill the driver anyways, no witness.

I certainly wouldn't rush to put myself in a position like that - but if I knew I was going into neighborhoods like that at night, I'd have a second driver along, and probably be armed /and/ wearing Kevlar skivvies. "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

During the day, the phone company would send us into known rough areas like that only in groups of three or more, all with 2-way radios. Marked trucks, marked shirts... At night, forget it without a police escort or other armed security. We could always fall back on "The demands of the service, or the importance of the job, are never so great that we cannot do the job safely" and refuse the assignment.

-->--

Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

On Mon, 31 May 2004 06:56:36 GMT, Gunner stated wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:

Those Chicago boys know how to have fun, eh?

But at least he -lived- to go on and do better things.

I had a blast today at the Machine Gun Shoot in Merlin, OR. The local range hosted it and I emptied a 75-round drum of

7.62cal ammo from an AK-47 into a junked van they had parked 50 yards out. What a hoot! I'm sure one would get better at aiming one of those with practice, but I can see how so many rounds go wide of their targets in automatic mode.

They also had a dozen beer-can-sized binary charges that they set off with rounds from an M-16. You can really feel those explosions in your chest. Some foam earplugs + a $1.99 set of HF earmuffs protected my hearing.

They had a pair of 30cal belt-feds together, and a couple 50cal monsters on chest-level tripods which were fun to watch.

I watched and took pictures for awhile, shot for a very short time, and sat and watched while I ate lunch out there. I said a little remembrance for my dad (a WWII and Nam vet) on this Memorial Day as well.

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

Quite the opposite. Folks that are too stupid to get a real job try crime.

Something tells me he really didn't want to be working for those folks after that. There's also a teeny bit inside me that says that his former boss at pizza hut would not really feel comfortable commanding him around after what happened.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

Can anybody smell a lawsuit, or am I just being a little jaded.

Reply to
Shiver Me Timbers

Yeah, problem is, the employer is going to sue the guy for disobeying the rule and violating a potential customer's rights. :^)

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

Reply to
Dave Foreman

I should mention that there is a classic reason why 9mms are not known for their stopping power. Id have to guess the guy was carrying FMJs instead of something you could actually stop somebody with.

Never carry a side arm for serious work that doesnt start with at least a .4 in the cartridge designation.

And the Mozambique Drill is prefered in situations like this...2 rounds to center of mass, then one to the head if the perp doesnt go down. Repeat as necessary.

Practice like you are on the street.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:51:06 GMT, Gunner stated wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:

With a 15-round clip, wouldn't that almost necessarily make his (illegal) concealed carry weapon a .22?

Yeah, if nothing else, 15 rounds to the head/neck would have taken the perp's head clear _off_. I see the antithesis to that in Hollywood all the time. Entire clips directed into body armor with none to the head. But aren't the carotid arteries an easier target? Hitting soft parts like the neck/jaws/eyes should slow the perp down a bit, y'reckon? It would limit the range of motion of their head, giving you a better chance of escape, too.

Is that how "tourist season" got started? ;)

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

The only articles I've seen indicate that he was "licensed" to carry. I haven't seen anything that indicates he did anything illegal.

If you you're referring to the 1994 ban, it only applies to magazines manufactured on or before September 13, 1994.

R, Tom Q. Remove bogusinfo to reply

Reply to
Tom Quackenbush

No. I dont know of any 15 round 22 handguns, but there are a hell of a lot of high cap Wonder 9s. I do have several high capacity 9mms, and they stay in the vault. I do carry a High Cap .45 on occasion. 14+1 up the spout. Though it does weigh a bit. I was under the impression that the Pizza guy had a CCW.

I watched the chief of police in a dusty little town in California shoot a perp through the neck with a 9mm. The perp returned fire and shot him. Another officer shot him center of mass with a .45. Ended things instantly.

Head and neck shots are a bitch when the adrenaline is pumping. Its simply better to carry a decent load or cartridge and keep your rounds center of mass. I was always fascinated by the number of police departments that bragged in the news about how their officers all got new bullet resistant vests, and then were upset when their officers started getting head shot.

Chuckle...

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Reply to
Gunner

I have a Browning .380 that holds 14 in the clip and 1 in the chamber. Gary Brady Austin, TX

Reply to
Gary Brady

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 11:13:26 -0400, Tom Quackenbush stated wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:

Oops, I read the original post wrong and he was licensed.

Oui, but a 15/20/30-round 9mm (or .45) clip would be a bit tough to conceal, wot? My point was: that many bullets in a weapon he concealed would point toward it being a smaller caliber.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:53:12 GMT, Gunner stated wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:

I saw several on the GA website on a browsing tour last month.

Yes, I misread that.

Ayup. But if you don't know whether or not they're wearing armor, a variety of shots (like your Mozambique Drill suggestion) is one way to make sure the bad guy goes down.

Yeah, like the US media pointing out precisely what we are going to do the next day in Iraq, etc.

It's amazing that the media were given the info, amazing that the media told it like they did, and amazing that the Iraquis didn't do even more damage to us the next time, after they learned _every_ _bit_ of our strategy from our brass & media lunkheads. Go figure!

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to start hearing our military radio and video broadcast freqs on the nightly snooze one of these days.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

WRT your first point, sort of. High capacity 9mm pistols _are_ pretty big, but some folks do carry them concealed. I think proper motivation and wardrobe are key here.

WRT your second point, I disagree. I wouldn't be surprised if high capacity (say, > 13 round) 9mm pistols outnumbered high capacity pistols of all lesser calibers put together.

BTW, I think one of the online articles mentioned that the pizza _was_ carrying a 9mm. Of course, reporters have been known to report on

45_mm_ handguns occasionally, too.

R. Tom Q.

Reply to
Tom Quackenbush

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