Possibly a silly question abt metalworking

Hi, I do soldering associated with my stained-glass work. What I'm wondering is, what's the difference between soldering and welding, especially
in terms of strength...? I'd like to make some stained-glass-topped metal tables, but what relatively-little I've seen about welding makes it seem super-expensive, dangerous, and generally daunting.
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but what can I say, "Inquiring minds want to know" LOL!
Thanks for your patience, and whatever info you might wish to share with me =:-)
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Soldering is one type of welding, the strength of the weld is normally limted by the material being welded.
What may be more important is the type of metal you are using for binding the glass. I assume you use lead or a lead alloy. What about placing another sheet of glass underneath the stained glass work to support it?
Someone here will probably have done what you want to do....
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Oh! OK, thanks, Dennis! So welding bsically applies more heat...? I tired to google this, but got deluged...

I should have been more specific in stating that I wanted tomake the table part, preferably using stainless steel - I can buy "regular steel" bits at Home Depot, but they develop a dirty coating that I assume is an oxidation layer, and would have to be painted, which I was tryingto avoid - especially since I really like the look of brushes stainless.
I have both zinc, and 60:40 zinc:lead solder. I think they'd solder stainless after flux is applied, but I don't know whether that would be enough to hold a simple table together (basically, 4 legs, wiht crossbars for stability, and a top part to hold the glass). I'm only thinking of something modestly-sized.
It might be that welding isn't as challenging as I think...?
Is ther a good "Welding for Dummies" type of book that you know of?
Thanks again!
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No ideas on a book. Go to youtube and search for welding videos just to get an idea of the basic process. Look for MIG and TIG welding.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mig+welding&aq=f


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tig+welding&aq=f

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Common "mild" steel is fairly easy to weld if you are good at soldering, but stainless is trickier and the equipment can be quite expensive. I suggest you sign up for a night school class. This is a skill best learned from an expert because much of it is recognizing and correcting mistakes.
jsw
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Common "mild" steel is fairly easy to weld if you are good at soldering, but stainless is trickier and the equipment can be quite expensive. I suggest you sign up for a night school class. This is a skill best learned from an expert because much of it is recognizing and correcting mistakes.
jsw
reply: You can set up a relatively inexpensive SS rig, and learn how to do it yourself. All you need is a DC welding rig, a bottle, regulator, TIG torch, consumables, and some SS. After that, your talent will take you where it will. It is not rocket science, and for you might be just what you are looking for.
Steve
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Learn how to care for a friend. Download the book. http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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(lots of good comments from others, but I do want to put my $.02 in here)

My experience was that my decades of soldering experience made learning to weld harder: I was accustomed to being able to rely on the base metal not melting, and seeing the solder melt meaning I was pretty much done -- and if I did'nt like the result, I could start over. I found getting used to the idea that I was working as much with the melted base metal as with the filler, and that there was no going back (you can rework a weld, but it isn't like doing the first weld over again!) to be very, very different.
I strongly endorse learning to weld in a class, or at least with the help of an expert who has lots of time and patience to help you improve.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
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Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

With leadlighting the basemetal (lead) melts at the same time as the solder, not like soldering guttering etc.
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I stick (arc) welded the 0.050" stainless steel bucket for my tractor, using DC and 308 (or 312??) flux-coated rod. The beads ran as easily as 6013. The flux fumes are irritating and the metal expands and distorts considerably when heated.
jsw
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I stick (arc) welded the 0.050" stainless steel bucket for my tractor, using DC and 308 (or 312??) flux-coated rod. The beads ran as easily as 6013. The flux fumes are irritating and the metal expands and distorts considerably when heated.
jsw
Coefficient of linear expansion for some common materials: (coefficient of linear expansion definition: The increment of length of a solid in a unit of length for a rise in temperature of 1 at constant pressure. Also known as linear expansivity. )
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/coefficient-of-linear-expansion#ixzz1CdwHSm9c
Aluminum 22.2 Steel 13.0 Stainless Steel 9.9 to 17.3 Lead 28.0 Copper 16.6 Titanium 8.6
All values vary slightly to severely according to metallurgical alloy compositions.
Steve
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Learn how to care for a friend. Download the book. http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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On 01/30/2011 09:28 PM, beauvine wrote:

Welding is challenging, but is neither 'super expensive' nor dangerous if you follow some basic and well-known precautions. Welding stainless steel gets more expensive, but there's certainly ways to get it done.
If I were going to do what you want I'd make the table frame out of mild steel and paint it black. Then I'd screw a stainless top onto it, and lay the stained glass onto that. Even if I had the equipment to weld stainless steel, I'd seriously consider screwing the top onto a frame, as thin sheets have a tendency to warp when you weld them.
To weld mild steel thin wall tubing, all you need is a gas welding outfit and some skill. Stainless takes more money for equipment.
Do you live close to a community college? Our local community college not only offers welding classes, but it offers "project classes", which is really just the school throwing its workshop open for you to build what you want with their equipment, with as much help as you need from their instructor. The basic welding class will teach you how to stick metal together, and how to have welding equipment without burning your house down. The open shop class will let you go build your table with a wide range of somewhat abused tools that would take thousands of dollars to acquire by yourself.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Welding stainless is trickier than welding steel. It does not conduct heat well, and it wants to "walk" all over the place as you heat it. It CAN be soldered with the right solder and flux, but it is not as strong as welding. To properly weld stainless steel you REALLY want a good TIG welder and a lot of experience. A good friend of mine welds a lot of high end stainless steel furnishings and cabinetry etc in Kitchener Ontario. When he is done you cannot see where the weld is - even on brushed or highly polished stainless.
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beauvine wrote:

Depending on what size, it could very well do, especially if you've got something solid around the perimeter.
Solder them, but maybe do an experiment to find out how much weight it'll cantilever.
Or, you could buy a tempered glass tabletop off-the-shelf, and just lay your SG on top of it. :-)
Have Fun! Rich
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beauvine wrote:
[about stained glass tabletop]
Don't weld on stained glass. The glass will crack or melt.
Have Fun! Rich
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On 01/30/2011 11:28 PM, beauvine wrote:

Welding stainless is a bit more difficult than other metals. Welding mild steel is quite easy. There are torch methods for stainless, and also brazing, but I think most people who do stainless use TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas). This requires a fairly fancy welder, but allows you (with sufficient practice) to do amazingly good-looking welds in stainless. If you've ever seen a commercial kitchen, that was all welded with TIG. But, it takes a while to get really good with TIG. However, if you are really good with soldering the glass caning, that is a skill that may transfer well to TIG.
Oh, one thing about TIG, the UV from the arc is extremely powerful, and will burn you the color of a cooked lobster THROUGH your clothes. So, heavy welding jackets and other protective gear is an absolute must. You don't need to ask HOW I know that!
Jon
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Make yourself a snood (yes, that is a word, it's even in OSHA literature) of a piece of supple leather to cover up the exposed skin in the vee in your shirt under your chin. That area can get lobster red. Of course, it happened to a friend of mine. I'd never be that stupid .....................
Steve
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Learn how to care for a friend. Download the book. http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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On 01/31/2011 04:51 PM, Steve B wrote:

Well, I don't use a snood, but have a welding jacket made for the purpose, and it has snaps that go high enough in the neck area to protect me up to where the hood covers. So, with that, I'm fine. But, before I got the jacket, I got a burn THROUGH my shirt! The worst parts were around the underarm area, where I guess the sun doesn't shine much, so that skin was totally white and unprotected before. But, my entire chest was bright scarlet for a week. I was wearing a heavy, dark permanent-press shirt that I'd (stick) welded in before with no problem. But, TIG is a completely different kind of UV output.
Jon
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I don't think it is different UV, but there is no smoke from the rod coating to adsorb any of the UV. Some shirts will protect you, others seem transparent to UV.
Dan
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On 02/02/2011 04:29 PM, snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote:

Yes, I think a flannel shirt might offer fair protection, I seem to recall the one I had that day might have been a thinner permanent-press one. Anyway, that was a SERIOUS burn, worse than any sunburn I ever got, and I have been sunburned badly a few times. So, I will stick with the heavy welding jacket. I don't know what is in it, but it obviously has several layers of heavy stuff inside, between to layers of heavy canvas-like stuff. I do know it gives great protection.
Jon
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wrote:

Unless you're very fair-skinned, I suspect there was something unusual about that shirt. I've been TIG welding for 35 years, including several years welding every day, and plenty of time at 300+ amps joining heavy aluminum. I've never taken any care in my choice of clothing beyond making sure I was covered, and I've never had a UV burn.
--
Ned Simmons

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